God's choice is not always our choice. Out of his many brothers, God chose David, a very young shepherd boy with no military skills to defeat the Philistine giant soldier named Goliath. If it were up to me, I would have chosen someone stronger and more experienced in military skills and strategy. However, God does not choose the strong to defeat a strong enemy. God chose a weak shepherd boy who had no military skills to defeat the strong giant Goliath so that His power would be manifested and all will know that it was the hand of God who defeated the strong enemy. If God chose the strong to defeat the enemy, people will think that it was the strong man who defeated the enemy with his own human strength.
According to Tim Rohr, he believes that Archbishop Hon will run aground due to the fact that Archbishop Hon has never commanded a diocese. According to the jungle:
Bad for us again because our current quasi archbishop isn’t qualified for such a tough job as cleaning up after Apuron. Hon has served only as a “staff officer.” Hon has never held command. Hon has never been a diocesan bishop.
It’s as though a battleship is about to run aground and the Navy sends in a captain who has never commanded anything larger than a desk.
To get someone more qualified and experienced to do the job has always been the choice of man. But God is different. He does not go by man's choice and never had. We have seen through the Holy Bible how God has chosen the weakest, the most humblest, the poorest, the handicap, and even the worst sinner to carry out His will so that His power would be manifested and all can worship and praise God.
Out of the many disciples Christ had, He only chose 12. These 12 were most likely the worst among the 500 disciples. These 12 worst Apostles went on to become the greatest of all saints. Only God has the power to turn a sinner into a holy saint. Out of all the nations, God chose slaves in Egypt to call His people. And this group of slaves went on to become a great nation. Only God has the power to turn a group of slaves into a great nation. So, Archbishop Hon has never been a diocesan Bishop. So, what is that to God, who is Head of the Church?
To the junglefolks and members of LFM and CCOG, make your choice. Do you want to follow a man....Tim Rohr who says that a more experienced commander should be in charge of the Archdiocese......or do you want to follow Pope Francis who chose Archbishop Hon to take command of the Archdiocese of Agana? Do you place your trust in a man like Tim Rohr who was NOT sent by the Pope or in Archbishop Hon who was sent by the Pope? Think about this before you go to that picket line on Sunday.
It's a little dangerous to play the "he's sent by the Pope so obey him like the Pope." The Pope sent him, but since Hon's not the Pope, he's not infallible. If he were, then any act by any bishop anywhere at any time would be ok.
ReplyDeleteOne point of clarification (and this is not a defense of Rohr): his issue with Archbishop Hon isn't really that he's never been a diocesan bishop. It's that Hon is in way over his head. The problems on Guam, the divisions, the accusations, all the stuff with RMS and priests and everything else, need a firm, decision hand. Hon hasn't demonstrated that. That's really what's being asked: please DO something. Pope Francis says (alleged) victims are the priority, first and foremost. That doesn't seem to have been the case here. There's been no addressing of grievances. Yes, it does take time, but the complaint is that after over a month, virtually nothing has been done.
On that note, that's why the lawsuit went forward. Anyone who known Rohr knows it's not about money for him (anyone who claims he acts from greed clearly hasn't met the man--he's way too idealistic for that). A lawsuit is the only way to get things moving and get justice (what the Jungle considers a just hearing anyway). Besides, a lawsuit actually solves the problem for both sides since now the truth will come out either way.
I for one will be glad when all of this is resolved and we can get back to the business of acting more like Christians.
Calling bad names the Vatican appointed Archbishop is not obedience and not Catholic at all! Claiming that Archbishop Hon is "racist", for example, is a head-on attack against the authority of Pope Francis that cannot be tolerated. Let me repeat, this simply cannot be tolerated! What wrong did Archbishop Hon do to you, my friends at the CCOG and LFM, that you hate him to the guts?!
Delete"Anyone who known Rohr knows it's not about money for him."
DeleteLol! Lmao! You made my day, my friend... You are funny as hell!
Dear Anonymous at 10:57 pm,
DeleteTim Rohr already admitted in his blog that Archbishop Hon is not here to resolve the sexual allegations. He already recognized that.
He is frustrated because the things he wanted done is not being done. He already listed the things he wants done on his blog such as completely removing Monsignor David and Father Adrian. Archbishop Hon replaced them with Father Jeff and Father Lito, but Rohr is not satisfied with that. He wants them completely removed from the Archdiocese.
The sexual allegation was used to remove Archbishop Apuron, but it did not completely remove him. He is still the Archbishop of Agana. If Rohr is really concern about resolving the sexual allegations, he would wait until Archbishop Apuron is on island and then take him to court. So, why the rush to go to court at a time when the Archbishop is in Rome being investigated? What purpose would that solve when the Archbishop is not here? Archbishop Hon cannot answer for the sexual allegations because he is not the one accused. So, how can both sides be heard when one side is in Rome? There is no truth in only one side being heard. Why the rush?
"Anyone who known Rohr knows it's not about money for him."
DeleteYou made my day too.
"anyone who claims he acts from greed clearly hasn't met the man"
I KNOW TIME RHOR PERSONALLY, AND YES, I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF THIS WAS AN ACT OF GREED.
Oh Anon 10:57pm, are you sure we are talking about the same Tim Rohr? I only know one on this island, and yes, he's about the money.
Please don't go there. It's annoying.
Anon. 10:57 pm, this isn't about Hon's capabilities. This is about Tim's demands. He has a list he wants done. It's always about what Tim wants. So, are the members of LFM and CCOG going to be obedient to Tim's will or to the will of God's Church?
DeleteRight now, Tim is already standing against Archbishop Hon. And when you stand against Archbishop Hon, you also stand against the Pope who sent him in his stead, and this has nothing to do with infallibility. It's a matter of what the Catholic Church has taught us. We are either in communion with the Pope and his representatives or not.
I would also like to add that the Holy Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church screams of obedience. God puts everyone under authority to prepare us for eternal life in His kingdom. Children are placed under the authority of their parents and told to obey and honor them. Priests are placed under Bishops and they make a promise to be obedient to them. Bishops are placed under the Pope and make a promise to be obedient to him. The pope is mandated to obey God. Workers are placed under an employer. And in the Bible even the slaves are told to be obedient to their masters.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 1269 Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us. From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to "obey and submit" to the Church's leaders, holding them in respect and affection. Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says to obey the Church leaders. That is very clear. The Bishops (including the Bishop of Rome who is the Pope) are the Church leaders. The Holy Bible is also consistent with this Catholic teaching. According to the Apostle Paul who was a Bishop:
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.
As you can see from the biblical verse above, the Apostle Paul told the Church in Corinth to follow him. Another verse from the Bible:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. [fn]Let them do this with joy and not [fn]with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
We are all placed under authority to prepare ourselves for God's kingdom. If you cannot obey the Bishops who represents the Apostles of Christ, how can you even obey God? If you cannot obey the Pope who is the Vicar of Christ, His representative on Earth, how can you obey God? In God's kingdom, there is no election. You are not going to elect a ruler. God is the ruler forever and in His Kingdom, there is no disobedience.
Since we are quoting Scripture, let's not forget 1 Peter 5:3. And therein lies the problem. I don't deny in the slightest that obedience is owed. I'm saying that when people lose that much confidence in their bishop and believe he is abusing them and they have no recourse, then something needs to bolster that besides a demand of "obey or else." Part of being a good shepherd is going after the lost sheep. If Rohr and his people are lost, then surely charity--even duty--requires the bishop to go to them to bring them back. Otherwise, we are all just Pharisees.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:27 am,
DeleteThis is why I think Archbishop is working slowly. He wants to bring the lost sheep back, but at the same time, he cannot do what the lost sheep demands of him. Part of the problem is the clergy, which I believe Archbishop Hon is addressing first. The four ad hoc committees can address the rest of the problems, but it will take time.
I agree. Well said. And yes, I'm the one who's raising all kinds of sand on this thread today.
DeleteI say again, people: we are agreed here! So simmer down.
So what all of you are saying is that Tim Rohr is so consumed with the desire for money that he's totaled his own business prospects and reputation on island in the business community and out? I don't see how that connects.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, I wasn't defending him. I was pointing out a difference in motive. Sorry that platitudes and self-righteousness don't allow for distinctions in your minds.
Dear Anonymous at 2:04 am,
DeletePerhaps, it is not greed as some people think. But what about revenge? I can see that his passion for removing the Archbishop is personal to Tim. Tim has even admitted in his comments that he is willing to destroy the Archdiocese so long as Archbishop Apuron is removed. This does not sound like a man who loves the Church, but a man bent on personal revenge. He probably blames Archbishop Apuron for the loss of his business prospects and reputation in the business community.
Bad for us again because our current quasi archbishop isn’t qualified for such a tough job as cleaning up after Apuron. Hon has served only as a “staff officer.” Hon has never held command. Hon has never been a diocesan bishop.
DeleteThank you so much for showing us the answers to God's mysterious work on earth. All we have to do is follow military regulations and standards.
Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!
follow the money......open your eyes!!!!!!!
DeleteYOU WON'T SEE TIM WITH NO PICKET SIGN, WHY IS THAT????????/
ReplyDeleteHe leaves the dirty job to the dirty. That's why!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:07 am,
DeleteThose people are not dirty. They follow Tim Rohr's bidding, because they were misled.
Diana, I did not say they were dirty in real! It is not my opinion about them. I was only answering to Anon 3:20 a.m. showing how Rohr thinks about these people, his own followers. It is obviously HIM who thinks picketing is dirty, that is why he avoids participating! Is he not a hypocrite?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:09 pm,
DeleteI apologize for misinterpreting your intent. I thought you were referring to them as "dirty."
Tim does not need a picket sign; his blog has is read by many countries.
DeleteIt is I who should apologize, dear Diana, I should have been clearer. Using quote marks as in "dirty" helps to get the idea that we talk about what is inside the mind of a person like Rohr. Thanks!
DeleteTo be honest, I don't think it's revenge. I think in his mind he's doing the Lord's work. Then again, most of us think we are doing the Lord's work when we are doing what we are passionate about, esp where God and the Church are involved. If it is revenge of some kind, then I'm not convinced it's a monetary kind. It's something else, but I can't quite put my finger on it. It's like a need to drive out those who are destroying the Church as he understands it. To me, it seems like the problem is he defended the Archbishop for so long against BJ Cruz and the whole abortion crowd, and no one was with him. He was out front the whole time. He defended the Church so many times when others didn't. Now he feels betrayed, or that others have been betrayed, I think. Just my way of thinking, and maybe I'm wrong. I don't know anyone's heart.
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is so tragic. So much hurt and anger all around. And we all know its going to get worse before it gets better.
He is doing the Lord's work?? Lol! It is very easy to test.
DeleteSt. Paul says you take pride in the Lord and boast in him, never in yourself. Rohr is boasting in himself and taking credit for everything. He is bragging arrogantly and demands his followers to give accolades to him. Just look at any page of his blog. He would definitely fail the test!
No my friend, I don't think Rohr is so foolish to believe that it is the Lord's work what he is doing!
"He defended the Church so many times when others didn't."
DeleteWow! Really?! What if he only penetrated our ranks to get our trust? It is exactly those with a hidden agenda are doing! Just look how he is using that trust. Is the trust given to Rohr used to build or destroy the house of the Lord? Answer this question honestly, my friend.
The devil is a master deceiver, masterfully disguising himself. It is the reality and hard facts about what he is doing that will give him away. Rohr is using the trust of Catholic people to inflict damage on everything Catholic around! By claiming credit and accolades to himself he is stealing the glory of God.
Please, do not delude yourself. Does this destructive behavior Rohr is exhibiting sound to you as defending the church? Really?!
I met Tim and his family the first month he arrived in Guam (1988). Because of his Catholic upbringing; he quickly immersed himself as a volunteer at the Religious Education Office at the Chancery. We were both volunteers making a difference in educating the youth on being Catholic. I find it ridiculous with your statement "he penatrated our ranks to gain our trust". 3Xs LOL.
DeleteDear Anon at 12:24 PM, perhaps you wanted and made a difference. But if you know Rohr then you know how he teaches catechism and the Bible in his own way. He always makes an impression that there is a big secret and the ONLY person who can reveal what is behind the secret is himself. He, Tim Rohr, always and only himself! If you know him, you exactly know what I am talking about.
DeleteA typical trick is starting with "most Catholics think this way", then saying they are wrong, but "I'll give you the true meaning that way" and then he elaborates on his own personal views. It is not Catholic, it is alien from the catechism. Another thing is that Rohr is never reading the Bible with heart and reverence, he reads it as a dry text illustrating his own views. He does not really think the Bible is the word of God. You can tell how one feels about the Bible when you hear the person to read it aloud!
This is not the way to teach the Bible if you only want to make a difference in educating anyone on being Catholic! You teach that way if your goal is to get influence, adulation and power over souls. You do this when you use the Bible to display and raise your ego over the audience and make yourself the center of those things that should have a different center in the Lord Jesus.
Dear 3:50,
DeleteHmmmm....I think you are correct about Rohr. But I also think your words could be said for Kiko, Pius, and the other NCW leaders as well. Your first paragraph could've fit both to a T. The typical trick---both use it.
It is always about their way of thinking, they are the right way. So now what?
AT 12:24 PM Tim and his family arrived in Guam (1988) The Bishop been here all his life,Serving his God and him Church. Marriages, baptisms,funerals, the cycle of life,I saw his at his brother's funeral, and thought how many funeral he performed and see all the sadness of the families,to see his face, today I bury my brother and holding up a strong face, his mother wanted him to be a doctor so he can help the people,so he told his mother he will help the people, by serving God and his Church,and you have one hated man ''Rohr'' to try to bring him down.the Bishop is a Good man!! God knows, Peace
Delete
ReplyDeleteObservering JW folk notice all very loyal conservative catholics. Each of them in their perspective ways were hurt by Archbishop Apuron. They joined together in an army which has damaged the commynity.
Diana,
ReplyDeleteI have a two-fold post that apparently is too long for one. If you would allow, pls post. But it is your blog, and I respect whatever you decide. Thank you for considering.
Diana, I know it's your blog, and everyone has their opinion, but really? After all I said about Rohr, not one of you readers out there has the insight to see what the real motivation is? Your contempt for Tim--while perhaps deserved--misses the whole point. And that, my friends, is why he will win again and again and again. You do not understand what is REALLY at the heart of this.
[Diana, I know you don't normally allow what I'm going to say, but please see it as an explanation, not an attack, because it certainly isn't meant to be]
Dear readers,
Tim is doing all of this--whatever this is--not for money, not for admiration, not for pride. I've known him a long time, and I know the man well enough to know that when he speaks plainly, he means what he says. So what does he say? What's at the heart of all of this?
He believes that the Neocatechumenal Way is heretical. More to the point, he believes that Kiko Arguello is a heretic and is leading others into heresy and away from Christ. For the purpose at hand, it's not important whether it's true or not; I'm not debating that, and Diana has asked not to go there, so I won't.
That's the heart and soul of all of this. NOW BEFORE YOU SLING YOUR ANGER AND INVECTIVE AT ME, please listen first:
I'm not saying you're heretical. I'm saying HE does. He sees your celebration of the Eucharist as gutting the sacrificial nature from it and leaving only an "agape feast." He sees the reduction of the parish life to smaller communities as a destruction of our faith life. He sees presbyters who cannot answer hard questions of his (and they are challenging, to be sure) as evidence that they are malformed as priests.
In light of this, he knows the Archbishop brought the NCW to Guam, so it's on him. But why the anger? Because despite the good it's done for some, he's seen the darker side too. Blind obedience to authority is troubling. Why should real obedience be for Tim? Among many reasons, because a priests tried to make a move on him, and his bishop did nothing. So he's already loaded for bear where bishops are concerned.
But what really bothers Tim is that if the NCW is heretical, then all these souls on Guam are in the darkness (and for the love of God, I'm not saying your are--I'm saying that's Tim's side of things).
Dear Anonymous at 1:05 pm,
DeleteYour comment is a good one for dialogue, and I will place it as a separate post.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to say it again and again, but I have to since as we've seen above, no one here seems to know how to read and think before responding. And the same goes for the Jungle, where they have mastered the same fault.
What I'm saying is, this is the beef for Tim. This is the core of the man: defense of the Church as the Tradition says.
Just a few comments above my writing this is the comment that the JW people are all conservative traditional Catholics who have been hurt by Apuron. That's not quite true, but even if it were, why the attack on "conservative?" Aren't the NCW attacked as too "conservative" in faith and morals consistently?
My wife asked me a few minutes ago why I'm bothering with this. It's because I care. I want healing on the island. I want each side to see the other's--not to see our commonalities, but to clearly see the differences. Then we can make the peace, not by wishing for unity (God bless Arch Hon for trying) but by saying to ourselves, we cannot resolve differences until we clearly KNOW our differences.
Tim doesn't hate the Church, and yes you mockers, he actually does believe he is doing the right thing. So do you. Laugh all you want with your LMAO at me, it doesn't change the fact one iota that unless you understand your opponent and his REAL motivation, he will always beat you. ALWAYS.
Thank you Diana for your allowing this post. You are most gracious. It is my hope that it spurs a discussion born from charity and reflection. Yes, readers say, but the Jungle is vicious in its attacks. Perhaps so. But I see daily in the attacks that you become steadily like them in not reading, thinking, praying. Just reacting.
I've said it before. Don't just pray. Fast. Offer up your Eucharist for Tim. Even on JW there are comments about how his children should burn in hell. What a terrible cancer is present in our midst.
Rohr is following an anticlerical, liberal strategy in attacking the church. He collaborates with the local liberal media and liberal law makers. He is linked to SNAP, an openly anti-Catholic entity, takes advice and instruction from them. He single-handed created the sexual scandal acting on the script of SNAP. He personally praises SNAP at his blog and probably taking more than moral support from them. Don't you see he is a well developed cuckoo in the Catholic nest?
DeleteWell said, anonymous at 1:05!! I wish people would read what you wrote and take it to heart.
DeleteAnonymous at 4:00--
DeleteYou say this because you believe the accusers are actors in Rohr's plan....but what if they aren't? IF they are truly victims, then wouldn't SNAP be the perfect allies in helping bring about justice for them?
No, because SNAP, just like it ally ACLU, share an openly liberal, anticlerical, anti-Catholic and anti-religion agenda.
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