One of the things shared in the announcement was about Pope Francis meeting with 50 families. These 50 families were sent off to different countries with a priest to accompany them. The pope delivered a speech, which can be found on the Internet. The following is the entire speech of Pope Francis (the bold red is mine):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In his address, the Holy Father focused on three words: unity, glory, and world.
Below is a Vatican Radio English translation of the Holy Father'sprepared remarks:
Dear brothers and sisters, good morning!
I'm glad to meet you and thank you for coming in such great numbers. I send a special greeting to those who are about to set off! You have accepted the call to evangelize: I bless the Lord for this, for the gift of the Way and for the gift of each of you. I would like to highlight three words that the Gospel has just handed you, as a mandate for the mission: unity, glory and world.
Unity. Jesus prays to the Father so that his (followers) be " brought to perfection as one” (Jn 17:23): he wants them to be "one" (v. 22), like Himself and the Father. It is his last request before the passion, the most heartfelt: that there be communion in the Church. Communion is essential. God’s and man’s enemy, the devil, is no match for the Gospel, cannot compete against the humble power of prayer and the Sacraments, but can do much harm to the Church by tempting our humanity. The devil provokes pride, being judgmental of others, he causes closures and divisions. He himself is "the divider" and often starts off by making us believe that we are good, perhaps better than others: thus the land is ready for the sowing of discord. It is the temptation of all communities and can it can insinuate itself even in the most beautiful charism.
You have received a great charism for the baptismal renewal of life. Every charism is a grace of God to intensify communion. But this charism can deteriorate if you close in or if you boast about it, when you want to distinguish yourselves from the others. So we have to safeguard it. How? Following the main path: of humble and obedient unity. If there is this, the Holy Spirit continues to operate, just as it did in Mary, who was open, humble and obedient. It is always necessary to keep an eye on the charism, cleaning out the eventual human excesses through the search for unity with all and obedience to the Church. This is how to breathe in the Church and with the Church; this is how to stay docile children of the "Holy Mother Hierarchical Church" with a "soul which is prepared and ready" for the mission (cf. St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, 353).
I stress this point: the Church is our Mother. Just as children carry, imprinted in their faces, a similarity to their mother, we all look like our Mother, the Church. After Baptism we no longer live as isolated individuals, but we have become men and women of communion, and we are called to be operators of communion in the world. Because Jesus not only founded the Church for us, but he founded us as Church. From her we are born again, she feeds us the Bread of life, from her we receive words of life, and we are forgiven and accompanied home. This is the fruitfulness of the Church, who is Mother: not an organization that seeks followers, or a group that goes ahead following the logic of its ideas, but a mother who transmits the life received from Jesus.
This fruitfulness is expressed through the ministry and the guidance of Pastors. The institution is in fact a charisma, because rooted in the same source, which is the Holy Spirit. He is the living water, but the water can continue to give birth only if the plant is well maintained and pruned. Quench your thirst from the fountain, the Spirit, and take care, with delicacy and respect, of the whole ecclesial body, especially the most fragile parts, because all grow together, harmonious and fruitful.
The second word is: glory. Before his Passion, Jesus foretells that He will be "glorified" on the cross: there his glory will appear (cf. Jn 17, 5). But it is a new glory: worldly glory manifests itself when one is important, admired, when one has assets and success. But God’s glory is revealed on the cross: it is love shines out and is spread. It is a paradoxical glory with clamour, no gain and no applause. This is the only glory that makes the Gospel fruitful. The Mother Church too is fruitful when it imitates the merciful love of God, that offers itself, it never imposes itself. It is humble, it’s like the rain on the earth, like the air we breathe, like a small seed that bears fruit in silence. Whoever proclaims that love can do so only with the same loving approach.
And the third word is world. "God so loved the world" that He sent Jesus (cf. Jn 3:16). He who loves does not stay away, but comes towards. God is not attracted by worldliness, in fact, He detests it; but He loves the world he has created, and He loves His children in the world, just as they are, wherever they live, even if they are "far away." Show the children the tender gaze of the Father and considered the realities you will encounter as a gift; become familiar with the cultures and the languages and respect local customs, recognizing the seeds of grace which the Spirit has already spread. Without yielding to the temptation to transplant acquired models, spread the news: "what is most beautiful, most grand, most appealing and at the same time most necessary” (Apost. Exhort. Evangelii Gaudium, 35). It is the good news that must always be in the forefront, otherwise faith risks becoming a cold and lifeless doctrine. To evangelize as families, experiencing unity and simplicity, is already a proclamation of life, a beautiful witness, for which I thank you so much. I accompany you and encourage you, and I ask you, please, do not forget to pray for me.
What Pope Francis said in his speech to the 50 families is simply beautiful. He said that it was the Devil who sows division and often starts off by making us believe that we are good. It is amazing!
And most importantly.....Pope Francis said that God loves us just the way we are. :-)
What Pope Francis said in his speech to the 50 families is simply beautiful. He said that it was the Devil who sows division and often starts off by making us believe that we are good. It is amazing!
And most importantly.....Pope Francis said that God loves us just the way we are. :-)
Simply amazing Diana.
ReplyDeleteWhy did the pope say this (the bit that you bolded):
"The devil provokes pride, being judgmental of others, he causes closures and divisions. He himself is "the divider" and often starts off by making us believe that we are good, perhaps better than others: thus the land is ready for the sowing of discord."
Well, you can see why he said it, by looking at the next sentence:
"It is the temptation of all communities and can it can insinuate itself even in the most beautiful charism."
In other words, the Pope is warning the NCW about being divisive - about being full of pride; being judgmental of others; believing that they are better than others.
And you...well, you do what you always do. You refuse to hear the truth, but instead stubbornly maintain that it couldn;t be about the communities, because as we all know, Kiko is a saint and his teaching is infallible. Which, of course, means that you are better than others doesn't it? After all "not everyone is called to be salt and light".
And the Pope even tells you what the remedy is to this behavior of the communties. He says:
"But this charism can deteriorate if you close in or if you boast about it, when you want to distinguish yourselves from the others. So we have to safeguard it. How? Following the main path: of humble and obedient unity."
Now, if he believed you were already doing that, he wouldn't have said this, would he? He says "this is how to stay docile children of the "Holy Mother Hierarchical Church". Why would he tell you to be obedient, if as you always claim you are obedient.
Finally, you do realise that when the pope said "The institution is in fact a charisma, because rooted in the same source, which is the Holy Spirit.", he was not speaking of the NCW or the communities, don't you? Read it carefully and you might notice that he is speaking of the priesthood, and why it is also a charism - a fruit of the action of the Holy Spirit.
But you, in your pride, and in your "we are so great aren't we" attitude, take it as referring to the NCW.
Simply amazing.
Dear Anonymous at 1:22 am,
DeleteNowhere in any of my post did I ever say that the NCW was better than you or that I was better than you. In fact, no where in any of my comments or posts did I ever say that I am good. I have always said that I am a sinner. Of course, there are some Catholics in the NCW who thinks they are better than others. And that is why Pope Francis warns us about pride. Sin is found in all of us. Just because we walk in the Way does not mean that we have no sin.
The fact that we have sin is normal. However, there are some Catholics who are NOT in the Way who thinks they are better than anyone else including those who attend the regular parish Mass. How easy it is for you to point your finger at those who walk in the Way. Do you not know that pride also exists in those who do not walk in the Way?????
Under the "Responding to Anonymous Poster" thread, someone argued that Kiko was wrong in saying that there is nothing but sin and selfishness in us. He was wrong to say that there is nothing good in us. Perhaps, now that person can write a letter to the Pope and tell him that he was wrong to say that it is the devil who tries to convince us that we are good.
As for obedient unity. What unites us to the Universal Church is our communion to the Archbishop and the Pope. As you can see, Pope Francis supports the NCW and recognize its charism s coming from the Holy Spirit.
There is absolutely no doubt that the NCW teaches that it is better than the "ordinary" Church. For example, the ONLY reason why the NCW would conduct a different communion during Mass is because it teaches that the "normal" way of receiving communion in the Latin rite(s) is defective or not quite right. There is no other reason for doing it differently, is there.
DeleteAlso, you know as well as I do, and in fact it has been said on this blog site, that the NCW believe it to be the future Church, that in the future the entire Church will adopt the NCW as the normal way. This arrogance and idolizing of the NCW is exactly what the Pope spoke about.
The fact that you pluck ordinary Catholics from the pews and then tell them that they have no faith, that they have mistaken ideas of God and humanity, that they have "nothing good in them" (not merely that they are prone to sin, Diana), only reinforces this pride.
If you were to claim that the regular NCW member did not consider that the NCW was superior to the "ordinary" Church, you would be lying. That is why the NCW continue to brag about how great it is. This blog is full of such statements.
The pope means to teach you to reform this mind set - saying things such as "not an organization that seeks followers, or a group that goes ahead following the logic of its ideas," 0- which of course is exactly what the NCW is.
"Under the "Responding to Anonymous Poster" thread, someone argued that Kiko was wrong in saying that there is nothing but sin and selfishness in us. He was wrong to say that there is nothing good in us. Perhaps, now that person can write a letter to the Pope and tell him that he was wrong to say that it is the devil who tries to convince us that we are good."
Ever heard of the phrase "non sequitur"? That's what this is.
Of course it is correct to say that the devil tried to convince us we are good - and therefore have no need to listen to God. But that is NOT the same as saying that there is "nothing good in us. NOTHING", because if we accept the need for God, are baptised belivers in Christ, and receive the sacraments (as most that attend the catechesis are), it is quite wrong to say what Kiko teaches.
You say "What unites us to the Universal Church is our communion to the Archbishop and the Pope."
How interesting. Did you not hear the pope when he told you that it is "humility and obedience" that guarantees the unity? How about next time you attend the NCW Mass, you request that communion is given just as it is given in the rest of the Latin Rite church. See how humble and obedient is the response to that!
Diana, I don't think Pope Francis is supporting the view that there is no good in human beings, as one angry catechist may have said at one of the meetings. The Pope warns us that we cannot be all-good, because that is a divine quality. But he is not saying there is nothing good in us. He puts the emphasis someplace else, the trouble when we believe we are "perhaps better than others".
DeleteHe goes on declaring that "the only glory that makes the Gospel fruitful" is the glory of the cross. This puzzled me a lot when I read, until I understood that the glory of the cross is coming through Jesus Christ and His apostolic successors. Only consecrated priests, bishops, popes, etc. can show us this humble glory, because "the devil provokes pride, being judgmental of others, he causes closures and divisions" among the laity.
I believe Pope Francis that our priests and presbyters are our true spiritual leaders. They are administering the sacraments, these precious deposits of our faith from the early Christian communities that was handed over to us by tradition.
I am thankful to the Church for offering the intimacy of sacraments through its consecrated servants, including private confession. Reconciliation is not a festive event for me, it is more like a very focused effort, a surgery on the soul, to cleanse us from sin. After a good confession you feel like healed, unified with the Lord, healthy again in the soul to face the challenges of incoming times. This healing process should not be distracted by spectacular grandiose. Private confession, other sacraments and the undeniable pastoral skills make the role of a priest very important in my spiritual life.
While we are sinners, our only hope is that the indwelling goodness that we had received in creation may be manifested by the inspiration of the love and suffering of our Lord on the cross, so that we may feel true contrition of heart for our sins, we may be able to walk away from and abandon our sins to be healed. My faith is coming from the Church. Even if I am a man of little faith, as our Lord called us, I have the ability to receive this good thing in my life. We are not totally depraved to sin, we have the divine sparkle of goodness, we are all created by God!
I don't think Pope Francis wanted to agree with the Calvinist view of total depravity of man that was espoused in the previous topic by some Anonymous commenter. This must have been a misunderstanding that needs some sort of clarification.
Dear Zoltan,
DeleteThere is a difference between human good deeds and divine good deeds. The human good deeds can be seen as good on the outside, but is quite the opposite in the inside. As the Bible said, the good deeds of man are like filthy rags. An example of a human good deed is giving $20,000 to the poor. What the man did was a good deed. But his intention was not very good because he advertise this good deed in the media to be recognized and receive praise from his peers.
Divine good deed that comes from God is when a man anonymously gave $50,000 to the poor. No one knew who he was. He did not go to the media to be recognized for it. This kind of goodness is divine and comes from God because both the deed and intention were good. Is man capable of having this kind of goodness in him? Yes, but only with God. Can a man become holy and never sin? Yes, but only with God. Man cannot do these things on his own.
We do not believe that man was born bad. We believe that he was born good because he was created in the image and likeness of God. Original sin cannot that away. Our human nature was made weak by sin, but we are still in God's image and likeness.
Dear Anonymous at 11:03 am,
DeleteYou stated: "There is absolutely no doubt that the NCW teaches that it is better than the "ordinary" Church. For example, the ONLY reason why the NCW would conduct a different communion during Mass is because it teaches that the "normal" way of receiving communion in the Latin rite(s) is defective or not quite right. There is no other reason for doing it differently, is there."
On the contrary, we celebrate the Eucharist the way we do because that is how the NCW celebrates it with certain permission from the Vatican. We do not tell you to change the way you do Mass in the regular parish. It is actually those outside the Way who wants us to change the way we celebrate Mass. In fact, some people in this blog have suggested that we stop our Saturday night Eucharist and attend the parish Mass.
Furthermore, it was not the NCW who said that we are the future church. It was actually Pope Benedict XVI who made that prophecy. Pope Benedict XVI who introduced the NCW in Germany was the one who said that the future church will be in small communities.
Wow, Zoltan, I never thought I would say it, but you are dead right. You spoke in a voice of prophecy at 11:34 AM. I agree with everything you said, and I am the anon commenter who made the original comments contained in Diana's post "Responding To Anonymous Poster"
DeleteWell done. This is the sort of reformist approach that is needed in the NCW. I hope you can continue in this vein and help others in the NCW see what you see.
I would point out however, that Diana is correct that the sentiment expressed by the catechists ("there is nothing good in you" etc) is precisely what Kiko and the NCW teaches. This too, needs to be reformed and corrected. I hope you can help them with that.
Diana is now trying to backtrack and say that the catechist meant that there is nothing good in you "without God's help". Well, of course. God is the author of all good things. But that doesn't change what the NCW through Kiko and the catechists actually say.
Diana, I don't know anyone who gave charity donation and then went to the media to advertise himself. But perhaps you know this person. It is not a criterion of good intention, I believe, if you are an anonymous donor or not. It is more important that you make an impact on the society and improve the lives of those in need. But let me tell you another example, not about money.
DeleteThere was a gambler who lived together with his wife and children. When he won on gambling, he shared his money with others. When he lost, he borrowed. He had this sparkle of goodness in him. Now, this man was seduced by a woman, he went with her and left his family behind.
This man could have been told to stop sinning and acting like a criminal. He could have been told to return to his family to raise and support his children. Building on the sparkle of goodness in him, this could have brought him back to his senses, back to his family and a faithful life. Rather, he was told we were all sinners, so no wonder he fell into adultery. He was assured that it was a natural thing that happened to him and his job was "fighting the devil" in the home of this woman as long as he felt it was necessary. The man was never again seen back to his family. His wife remained without a husband and his children without a father.
You see, Diana, we all have some goodness in us. Even this adulterer used to share his good fortune with others. He had a path of return to the good way, but someone should have rebuked him and called him out of his sinful lifestyle. You cannot call out a sinful person from his sinful ways, if you assure him first that it is natural what he is doing and wish-wash his shameful behavior by saying that "we are all sinners". You have to tell this person firmly: sin no more! That is why we have a church and we have the consecrated priests who have their authority from God and who serve us the holy sacraments.
Diana, this is the reality of grace. You have to go for it. If you don't, then you lose it. If you succumb to an exaggerated sense of guilt, sin and shame, extend "sinfulness" equally to everyone, then you cannot make a distinction between good and bad behavior anymore. This man could have shown spiritual rigor and condemnation of his ways in order to bring him back to his family. He, as everyone, is a creation of God, capable of listening to God's call. But he was left alone in his moral decay, corruption and sinfulness, he was left alone in succumbing deeper and deeper into eternal damnation.
That is why it is important to recognize, acknowledge and build on the inherent goodness of man, even a sinner, who was created in the image of God. Every soul lost is an outcry to God. We should tell people that sin is not okay, sin is not normal, we must walk away from and overcome sin, because our Lord was crucified for this very reason.
"From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we know him no longer in that way. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!" (2 Corinthians 5:16-17)
Hooray for Zoltan again. Well said.
DeleteDear Zoltan,
DeleteThat goodness in us comes from God who is the source of all goodness. He created us in His image and likeness and everything He created was good. One would see an organization or persons donating thousands of dollars to the Red Cross in the back of the newspaper. So, there are people who donate to the less fortunate, but their reasons for doing so is to either get a tax break or recognition. In other words, there is something in it for them.
Pope Francis meant what he said. The Devil always starts to convince us that we are good. Once we are convinced that we are good, there is the danger of convincing ourselves that we no longer need Christ. When we say that we are good, it becomes easy to believe that we are better than others. After all, can you say that you are no better than Tim Rohr and other junglefolks? Or do you believe that you are a better person than Tim Rohr because you are good?
You stated: "Rather, he was told we were all sinners, so no wonder he fell into adultery."
When you are told that you are a sinner, that is the truth. You should not blame your sin on the person who told you that you were a sinner. You put the blame on yourself because you chose to sin. Sin is a result of one's free will. It is not the result of being told by someone that you are a sinner because the Church instructs us to admit that we are sinners (See CCC 827).
Committing adultery is a sin. In the NCW, we are told what sins are. Adultery, fornication, stealing, anger, abortion, the use of contraceptives, etc. are all sins which the Catechists made us aware of. Telling a person to "sin no more" does not guarantee that the person will no longer sin. It also does not mean that the person will no longer become a sinner.
The only path to return to the good way is Jesus Christ. It is only through Christ that we can sin no more. The Church is like a hospital. It is there to bring the individual to Jesus Christ, who is the healer. Christ is the doctor who can heal the person and make him into a new creation. To become a new creation is a process that takes time. Of course, there will be times that we will fall into sin, but we have Christ there to pick us up when we fall, and we continue our walk. In time, people will notice a change in us as we convert. We find ourselves sinning less and less. We find that when people say bad things about us, it no longer hurts us at all. Why? Because we have become a new creature in Christ. In becoming this new creature, we find that we no longer judge people nor call them bad names.
As for the adulterer who did not return to his wife, he left his wife not because he was told he was a sinner. He left his wife because he was tempted by the Devil. When a person falls into sin, he can become a slave to sin, which is why the adulterer did not return to his wife. He found himself enjoying the company of the other woman than the company of his wife. However, this man still has free will. He can be told to return to his wife, but the choice is his to make.
This is one of the reasons why ex-Neos are now bad mouthing the NCW. There are a few people in the jungle who were once in the NCW. They were told by their catechists to return to their wives and work out their marital problems. They refused and left the Way. And these same people are now the ones in the jungle saying that the Catechists are there to control people's lives.
The Vatican officials I spoke with called the speech a wake call and warning to kiko and the NCW. Insiders say Kiko wasn't too happy. Even the Vatican website and Pope App headline reads- "Pope calls NCW to unity". Not the church, not the people who don't understand, not the rest of us. It was a gentle scolding. Everything the pope was speaking of was about the NCW and its dealings and works.
ReplyDeleteKiko put on a show, Pope was annoyed, but diplomatically responded.
The speech adds on to the warning and speech given last year (which Kiko again wrote a letter to Pope.) I find it interesting that everything and every time a pope (JP2, Ben16, Francis) does something or says something, Kiko responds with a letter back explaining or telling the pope what he (Kiko) thinks it means. This speech got rid of the gray area and told Kiko- fall in line. (Mic drop)
Reporting from inside the Vatican! CIAO!
Dear Anonymous at 8:06 am,
DeleteFrom the words of Pope Francis to the NCW: "You have received a great charism for the baptismal renewal of life. Every charism is a grace of God to intensify communion."
As long as the NCW here is in communion with the Archbishop of Guam, we are in unity. The NCW in places like Japan, the Philippines, and Nepal where the Bishops oppose the Way.....these are the NCW who are called to be in communion. For example, the Bishop in Japan opposes the Way and instructed them not to do their Saturday night Eucharist despite that their Statutes stated that they can celebrate the Eucharist in small communities on Saturday night. But because the Bishop is Japan says not to, then they are called to be obedient to the Bishop in Japan. As far as I know, the NCW in Japan has been obedient to the Bishop. In time, the Bishop in Japan will be called to be obedient to the Pope.
Now the question to you in Italy....are you in communion with the Pope who supports and endorses the Neocatechumenal Way who recognized our charism to be from the Holy Spirit? Or you against what the Pope supports and endorses? If you oppose what Pope Francis supports, then you are not in unity with the Pope.
Reporting from those in communion with the Pope! ADIOS!
"... discord ... divisions ... disobedience ..." Pope Francis it appears knows something of the situation here. Let's pray that we sow seeds of unity with the our archbishop and pope.
ReplyDeleteI was there at the announcement as a guest cause I needed a ride home to Yigo. One of your members was kind enough to drop me home. I was truly touched by the number of members. I can see the affection each gave to one another. The only thing that bothered me was there was one young priest sitting in the front with Father Pius(?). He, the young priest, seemed to be very comfortable, almost too comfortable for me, he was slouching, looking so casual... not what you expect of a priest who represented God. At first I didn't think he was a priest. I didn't see the white collar which I saw much later, which he had it almost hidden completely in his collar. Is he not proud to show the collar? Also he seems to be IN LOVE with his phone. When I made a comment to another member about the cell phone always in the priest's hand, the member simply chuckled and said maybe he is waiting for an important phone call from one of the parishioners... hmmm. I am disappointed in that young man, the so called priest. He reminded me of my mother's former parish priest. He was from Poland, I think. He, too, was so much in love with his phone, that he was constantly texting.
ReplyDeleteHere we go again with the double standards...lol...story of the past 4 years.
Delete-Jokers Wild
@Anon. 3:01 pm, why do you judge? Didn't you notice that he left early due to an emergency? Father Pius wasn't feeling well that night, but still came for us. And a priest who is willing to tend to an emergency situation for his flock is a good priest.
DeleteAnon.at March 22, 2016 at 3:01 pm it turned out that the person you turned to to make the comment had more compassion and was more understanding.
DeleteThe Pope was speaking to us, members of the Way, and not to others. This version of his talk in English consists of 965 words, of which 532 are dedicated to the topic of unity. That's 55%, and over half his talk! And he's talking to US, those walking, not others. So he's warning US to be mindful of unity.
ReplyDeleteHi Diana!
ReplyDeleteI was there. There was one error in your text. The number of families sent was near 300, 57 new missions, each with 4 or 5 families, a priest and on same cases some sisters to help on the mission. There more missions, but for security reasons I'll not tell anything about them. And that's why they were not talked in the meeting with the Pope. We must realise that are some crazy and extremely stupid brothers in the way that talk way more they should. There is much lack of charity everywhere. In the Way and in the Church in general. We're all sinners after all.
About the Pope speech, don't get to crazy about it. Thank God the Pope have a correction word for all of us. That's what the good fathers do! It fitted me. They correct their children because he love's them! I'm always 'climbing to the top'. Putting myself up there.
We all know that all the movements and charisms that were inspired by the Holy Spirit to lay people find great resistance in the Curia and all hierarchy anyway. They still think they can go back to the times were the Bishops had temporal power. They don't seem to care if people get to know and experiment the love of God. Some good the NCW must be doing. Having so many ferocious enemies means NCW is doing it right and it's very well alive. And we must know that Pope is not that well informed about all the matters. Some people in Vatican do their best to make the Pope look like a fool sometimes...
Anyway, after one week spent with all the families and enjoying the presence of the Holy Spirit, watching trully great miracles happening in my/our life during those days... makes me look at all the enemies with a certain degree of pity. For much they read speeches and things that Kiko spoke they are millions of miles away of what's really going on and that really matters. And they are needed to make us humble, like the Pope said. In a way I think they are trying to protect the Church, witch is a good thing. About the divisions: I think they don't really get it. I'm going on mission because I saw the miracles God made in my life and I'm thankful to Him. Because He rescued me, saved my marriage, loved me when I was unfaithfull. And have done it through the NCW, witch, step by step gave me the weapons the Church had for centuries to fight. That's why I swore fidelity to the Church and to the Pope. Not to Kiko or NCW, but I recognize them as instruments of God in the Church.
Sorry for the length of the post (and the bad english). Stay in Peace!
No one will grow if one takes only the good that is mentioned, but avoids the main purpose of the Pope`s speech.
ReplyDeleteDiana, you highlighted `( that in caps)
*You have received a great charism for the baptismal renewal of life. EVERY CHARISM IS A GRACE OF GOD TO INTENSIFY COMMUNION. BUT THIS CHARISM CAN DETERIORATE IF YOU CLOSE IN OR IF YOU BOAST ABOUT IT, WHEN YOU WANT TO DISTINGUISH YOURSELVES FROM THE OTHERS. SO WE HAVE TO SAFEGUARD IT. HOW. FOLLOWING THE MAIN PATH; OF HUMBLE AND OBEDIENT UNITY.*
But continuing on, the Pope STRESSES (again note Diane, it is the Pope who is stressing the following to the NCW) obedience such as the example of Mary in humble obedience for UNITY. This involves `*cleaning out excesses* and being docile (teachable) children of MOTHER CHURCH. (Look at the following part of the Pope`s speech carefully)
*If there is this, the Holy Spirit continues to operate, just as it did in Mary, who was open, humble and obedient. It is always necessary to keep an eye on the charism, cleaning out the eventual human excesses through the search for unity with all and obedience to the Church. This is how to breathe in the Church and with the Church; this is how to stay docile children of the "HOLY MOTHER HIERARCHICAL CHURCH" with a "soul which is prepared and ready" for the mission (cf. St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, 353).
I (the Pope) STRESS THIS POINT: the Church is our Mother. Just as children carry, imprinted in their faces, a similarity to their mother, we all look like our Mother, the Church. After Baptism we no longer live as ISOLATED individuals, but we have become men and women of COMMUNION, and we are called to be operators of communion in the world. Because Jesus not only founded the Church for us, but he founded us as Church. From her we are born again, she feeds us the Bread of life, from her we receive words of life, and we are forgiven and accompanied home. This is the fruitfulness of the Church, who is MOTHER: NOT AN ORGANIZATION THAT SEEKS FOLLOWERS, OR A GROUP THAT GOES AHEAD FOLLOWING THE LOGIC OF ITS IDEAS, but a MOTHER who transmits the life received from Jesus.*
Dear Anonymous at 3:56 am,
DeleteI can only speak about the NCW on Guam as I walk in the community here. From what I see, there are a few brothers in the Way who are arrogant and feel they are better than others, but these brothers so not represent the entire NCW. We are all human and can make mistakes. However, some of these brothers have come to realize that they were wrong.
As for unity, we are in unity, the Pope calls us into unity. We are called to be in unity with the Bishops and Pope. And we will strive for that. Do you see us opposing the Archbishop??? Of course not. What You want is for the NCW to oppose Archbishop Apuron. Is that correct?
what would our spiritual leader, Archbishop Anthony Apuron, do to bring about unity? should he do nothing? should he meet with his accusers?
ReplyDeleteyou cannot ignore that there is a separation today. you insist it is the other side, the CCOGs, the LFM, that promotes separation and you may be right.
But what has the the Bishop done to promote unity?
Dear Anonymous at 2:05 pm,
DeleteThe Archbishop prayed for them. That is all anyone can do for people who have no desire for unity. We can only offer prayers. God will take care of the rest just as He has always done for us.
Why doesn't he just meet with them? He never has....please don't try to say he has....he hasn't made any attempt.
DeleteWe know that the NCW may celebrate Mass in their small communities, but they are to use that Mass as a stepping stone to the regular Mass, where we, at all our different levels of understanding and belief, come together as ONE. (This was the wish of Pope Benedict XVI.) The Saturday night NCW Mass is valid, but the unapproved, not-in-the-2008-Statutes additions and deletions, are illicit and therefore liturgical abuses.
ReplyDeleteYou may be in unity with a Bishop, but if that Bishop is not in unity with the Pope re the Mass, then you also are not in unity with the Pope re the Mass. (Note: this has nothing to do with the many commendable charisms in the NCW; this has to do with "A GROUP THAT GOES AHEAD FOLLOWING THE LOGIC OF ITS IDEAS.")
If Pope Francis says to correct the NCW using the Statutes, and the Statutes do not give the permission or approval for the many alterations in the NCW Mass, the NCW is ignoring/disobeying the corrections that were mandated by Pope Francis.
I do not want the NCW to oppose any Archbishop - providing that the Archbishop is in agreement with the Pope - otherwise the archbishop unfortunately has no authority (in this particular issue). See CCC #883.
The most charitable thing the NCW can do for its Priests and Bishops is to insist that the Mass be celebrated according to the approved Liturgical Books as per the Pope's wishes. (Sign of Peace is one change that has been approved in the Statutes of 2008.)
Dear Anonymous at 2:34 pm,
DeleteDid you read the prophecy of Pope Benedict XVI in my blog. As for the liturgy, write a letter of complaint to the Vatican. You can correct us all you want. We will not listen to you. We listen only to Rome. So, in your letter, demand that Rome corrects us and wait for their reply.
DeleteDear Diana - re yours of 4:16 pm
The prophesy of "FATHER" Ratzinger was given in "1969."
The Spirit of the Liturgy is a "2000" book written by "CARDINAL" Ratzinger.
Excerpts from this book include:
"Kneeling does not come from any CULTURE - it comes from the
BIBLE and its knowledge of God ...(to kneel before) alone occurs 59X in the New Testament, 24 of which are in the Apocalypse, the Book of Heavenly LITURGY which is presented to the Church as the "Standard of her OWN LITURGY."
and
"There is a story that comes from the sayings of the Desert Fathers, according to which the devil was compelled by God to show himself to a certain monk. The devil looked black and ugly, with frightenly thin limbs, but most strikingly, he had no knees. The inability to kneel is seen as the very essence of the DIABOLILCAL."
and most importantly the following excerpts, because this is an obvious call for correction to liturgy .....
"There are groups, of no small influence, who are trying to talk us out of kneeling. "It doesn't suit our culture" they say....it's not appropriate for redeemed man - he has been set free by Christ and doesn't need to kneel any more...St. Augustine said that the humility of Christ and his love, which went as far as the Cross, have freed us and we kneel before that humility. The kneeling of Christians is an expression of Christian culture which transforms the existing culture through a new and deeper knowledge and experience of God." (page 184)
"The man who learns to believe, learns also to kneel; and, a faith or a LITURGY no longer familiar with kneeling, would be sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling MUST be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in FELLOWSHIP WITH THE APOSTLES AND MARTYRS, IN FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WHOLE COSMOS, INDEED IN UNION WITH JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. (page 194)
Two questions.
How does the NCW justify themselves listening to their leader rather than the Pope's call for correction.
Diana,I don't understand, what does "Father" Ratzinger's prophesy have to do with the Mass?
I wish you Christ's peace on this Good Friday.
Dear Anonymous at 4:28 am,
DeleteKneeling is from a culture. The Bible was written by people of the Middle East. If it was written by the Japanese, there would be no kneeling because kneeling is the same as sitting and considered disrespectful. Furthermore, the Eastern Catholics do not kneel in their liturgy and that is approved by the Vatican.
Again, as I said, you have done your correcting unsuccessfully. We listen only to the Vatican. So, write your letter of complaint to the Vatican. Any further comments regarding the way we celebrate the Eucharist will not be publish. After all, no one is forcing you to attend Mass in the NCW.
Dear Diana,
DeleteYou state kneeling is from a culture, yet Cardinal Ratzinger says in the excerpt previously mentioned that "kneeling DOES NOT come from any culture - it comes from the BIBLE and its knowledge of God."
Perhaps you missed that part.
It's too bad you won't print any more letters concerning the way you celebrate the Eucharist. Instead of spreading the Truth, I fear you will be accountable for perpetuating the illicit additions and deletions in the NCW Mass. I hope and pray you'll reconsider.
Also, the question "What does Father Ratzinger's prophesy have to do with the Mass" remains unanswered.
Dear Anonymous at 9:56 am,
DeleteKneeling is in the Bible, but it is also cultural. Kneeling does not mean the same thing across culture. The Japanese Catholics, for example, do not kneel because in their culture, kneeling is the same thing as sitting. The Japanese kneel whenever they dine. In their Mass, the Japanese Catholics do not kneel. See the weblink below:
com/news/article/japanense-church-abolishes-kneeling-for-communion
In the Bible, the Apostle Peter said that the Gentiles do not need to follow the customs of the Jewish Christians. The problem with you is that you want to impose your western definition of kneeling to everyone including those in the Eastern cultures.
Again, in response to your "the Eastern Catholics do not kneel in their liturgy and that is approved by the Vatican"....
ReplyDeleteThis is not true. I know someone personally that belongs to a Ukrainian Catholic Church, and he says they "prostrate in adoration" of Jesus present at the Altar.
----------------
Dear Anonymous at 10:21 am,
DeleteI suggest that you look up information on the Eastern Catholics. Their churches do not have kneelers because they do not kneel.
ReplyDeleteIt is not me that wants to impose anything on your NCW group; I would hope that the members would "want" to adore Eucharistic Jesus - "without" banning kneeling - the official position of adoration in the Roman Catholic Church. I do believe that Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis gave admonishment to the NCW directly and indirectly - I am just repeating their requests/correction.
In an entry that you did not post, I gave you the following website that shows the danger of one "banning" kneeling before our Lord. You did not post. I offer it again (again, it is not me that is imposing anything, but offering the NCW the opportunity to serve our Lord better by being docile.
http://www.hprweb.com/2015/07/kneeling-ban-good-liturgy-or-loss-of-religious-freedom/
I want to address the Japanese "kneeling, while resting their seats on their feet." I've never seen a Japanese eat while kneeling upright - without resting their seats on their feet. Therefore, one cannot say that kneeling upright (without resting on their feet) is the same posture as sitting.
And, I did look up kneeling in the Eastern Churches - there are many that do the prostrations. Perhaps, those that are doing the prostrations "want" to adore like those in Revelation?? Peace
Dear Anonymous at 12:45 am,
DeleteI apologize for publishing your comment late for it is Easter Sunday. And we have been very busy preparing for the Easter Vigil. I did not publish your last comment because it is about the liturgy. Yet, you continue to insist. I doubt that you looked up the Eastern Catholics because in their Mass, they stand about 98% of the time. They do not kneel. Furthermore, "kneeling, while resting at the soles of their feet" is still kneeling. Whether one kneels upright or not is still kneeling and considered as "sitting" in the Japanese culture. This is why in Japan, they do not kneel.
At any rate, I will have a post for you soon on kneeling as that is your primary focus.
We, like many churches, do not have kneelers, and we kneel. Not having kneelers does not excuse the able-bodied to bend the knee.
ReplyDeleteGood Lord, if there's one thing that the Way showed me is that the Church it's not just an organization with ton's of books full of rules. I got to know God In My Own Life. I feel sad by these people that seems the only thing they know is what it's written in books. They never talked about God in a personal way, only things learned in books.
ReplyDeleteYes the Popes had corrected us along the years. Thank God they did. No one's perfect, not Kiko, not me, not the bishops.
As the responsible for another very well known 'movement' said recently: the NCW must be doing something very good. They are very much alive, they are full of vocations. Having a lot of persecution is a good thing.
We know that some proeminent people at the Vatican are waiting anxiously for the Kiko's dead to close all the seminaries and dismiss the NCW, but as for me I'm staying with what Carmen said once: "We're catholic, we are with the Pope. They can close the NCW. I don't care. I'm with the Pope."
I don't understand all these tiny insignificant questions. I kneel to pray, I prostrat, I wake in the middle of the night to pray, I love all the things about the Church, how the Church have been a mother to me. All that I got it from the NCW, before that I was about to leave the Church. God change my life through the NCW, and me and my familly offered our lifes to God and to Church to go on Mission because we are thankful to God and because He opened to us the treasures of the Church: the Liturgy of Hours, the Rosary, the praying all the time. The NCW is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the Church. The Church is a Gift from the Holy Spirit to the World. All those trowing stones must remember that the only unforgiven sins are those commited against the Holy Spirit...
Oh I see. So the bottom line is - if you criticize the NCW you are sinning against the Holy Spirit. Well, then, that must mean that the NCW is infallibly good and can never,ever have any need to be corrected or reformed. Wonderful, thankyou
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:26 pm,
DeleteNo one saying that the NCW is infallible. However, the NCW cannot be destroyed because it comes from God.
If it comes from God it must be perfect huh? And therefore there can be no need for any adjustments or concern that it may be off track. That's the argument it seems. As I said, you consider that the NCW is infallible.
DeleteNo, dear Anonymous, but if you worship rules and regulations laid down on paper with black typed letters, then you worship a false god, a no-god, a dead god who is not existing. Then you are also an idolizer, who turns away from the living Spirit of God.
DeleteJungle folks cannot do anything but worshiping dead letters. How sad for them and for their families, friends and followers. Because they miss out big time on the grace of God that is flowing from Jesus Christ our savior and not from dead letters. Jesus died and was risen on the third day so that we might be saved from the bondage and slavery of dead letters and dead souls who worship those dead letters.
The greatest corruption to our soul and gravest damage to our faith are committed every day by those who rely solely on dead letters, rather than the living Spirit of God. They are the true crucifiers of Christ, because they obnoxiously follow the high priest who condemned Him based on dead letters.
Dear Anonymous at 10:20 am,
DeleteI never said that it was perfect. I said that whatever comes from God cannot be destroyed. An example is the Catholic Church herself. Her members are not perfect, but the Church existed for over 2000 years because it was built by Christ, not by man.
Oh good God, this people that says we just pick the part that fits our narrative just picked the last sentence as if that was the key to what I said. But before that I said "Yes the Popes had corrected us along the years. Thank God they did. No one's perfect, not Kiko, not me, not the bishops."
ReplyDeleteMe personally I think it's sad... for them! But Diana, we can destroy the Way. God has nurtured the Way all this years, but He can stop. Because of our sins or just because He decide to. What really matters it's the Church, and we are a service to the Church and as a consequence to the world. Along this 2000 years God has raised, inspired charisms and religious orders to help the Church in specific times of their history and after a certain period some had ended others lost part of their influence.
Church is going down very fast here in Europe. Cultural Marxism is infiltrated all over the place and there's a war against everything cristina, specially Catholic. German Church is about to sell (if not did it already) more than 100 churches. What Ratzinger said in the 60's is becoming in frutition. I believe that in less than 20 years any sort of religious expression (except from islam) will be forbidden here. Church it will go back to model of the first times, the church that gathers in homes, like some missio ad gentes that had been sent to the middle east and the ones that are already there for some time. What they testify really warms up the heart. That compared to the comment of those who spent their time reading books to attack the NCW... Guess with whom I prefer to spend my time?
But I keep saying that criticism is a good thing, it's like fire to the gold. Helps to purify.
I 'like' to read the last 'news' about the attack so I don't forget to pray for Kiko. He's just a man, a human, and all the lies and attack motiveted by envy make him suffer a lot. He was suffering in Porto San Giorgio 2 weeks ago, but the availability of families really bring us all up.
So the end, all I have to say is God is good, so good to us. Thanks for the Church, thanks for the NCW, thanks for Kiko, Carmen and Mario, thanks for all our enemies (of the NCW) and the enemies of the Church. It all help us to purify our faith. The only glory that we should expect is the Glory of the Cross.
Be happy announcing the news of Resurrected Christ in the next weeks in Guam.
Peace.
Dear Blue,
DeleteMan can never destroy what comes from God. Therefore, we can not destroy the Way because it is a charism that comes from the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church can never go down because she is the Bride of Christ. The ones who go down are the members of the Church. Nevertheless, despite that many members are going down, there is always a remnant. That remnant keeps the Catholic Church in existence.
God has created many charisms such as the NCW, Focalare, Charismatic Catholic Renewal, Cursillios, and many others to help the members of the Church. All these charisms are at the service of the Church. Yet, at the same time, they are also one with the Church.