We Catholics venerate and honor the saints. They show us that it is possible to live a life of holiness and virtue. They were able to live such a life only with God because with God all things are possible. It is only through God's grace that a person like St. Rita was able to endure the trials in her life. God carried her through her suffering, and she was even able to forgive the person who murdered her husband. This post is about St. Rita of Cascia. St. Rita was an Italian widow and Augustinian nun and venerated as a saint in the Roman Catholic Church. Before becoming a nun, she was married at a very early age to a cruel and abusive husband. During her 18 years of marriage, she endured insults, physical abuse, and infidelities from her husband. But she never left her husband. Through humility, kindness, and patience, Rita was able to convert her husband into a better person. She eventually bore two sons.
Her husband was murdered by a family member who held a grudge against the family. Her husband was stabbed to death by Guido Chiqui, a member of the feuding family. At her husband's funeral, Rita forgave her husband's murderer.
However, her two sons, Giovanni and Paulo sought revenge for their father's murder. Rita tried to persuade her sons not to retaliate with vengeance, but to no avail. Fearing that her sons would lose their souls, she asked God to take her sons rather than submit them to the mortal sin of murder. Her sons died of dysentery a year later, and they were unable to carry out their revenge.
After the death of her husband and sons, Rita desired to enter a monastery as a nun. Catholic legends say that she was transported into the monastery of Saint Magdalena via levitation at night into the garden courtyard by three patron saints. She remained at the monastery, living by the Augustinian Rule, until her death from tuberculosis on May 22, 1457.
According to Catholic Online:
In the midst of chronic illnesses, she received visions and wounds on her forehead which resembled the crown of thorns. She died on May 22 at Cascia, and many miracles were reported instantly.http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=4610
Rita was beatified by Pope Urban VIII in 1626 and later canonized on May 24, 1900 by Pope Leo XIII. Together with St. Jude, she became the saint of hopeless causes. According to Catholic News Agency, "she is also known as the patron saint of sterility, abuse victims, loneliness, marriage difficulties, parenthood, widows, the sick, bodily ills and wounds."
In conclusion, those who think that a wife should resist by hitting back her abusive husband is the Catholic thing to do.....then ask yourself why did the Catholic Church honor and venerate a woman who did not resist.
Thank you, Diana. I just finished reading JW's latest blog. Chuck White twisted everything that Kiko said. Chuck and JW is proclaiming that,Kiko is preaching total submission. Your story of St. Rita put everything in the right perspective. It was never about total submission. It was about being a true Christian. St. Rita whom the Church venerates was a true Christian. JW and Thoughtful Catholic might as well mocked St. Rita who was able to convert her abusive husband.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:43 am,
DeleteIt is with God's grace that St. Rita was able to stay in an abusive marriage and endure it. Most intelligent women would leave the marriage. And the women who do leave usually do not return to their husbands and end up in divorce. The Catholic Church exists to bring sinners to Christ, and the NCW follows this. With the help of a small community and with God's grace through many prayers, the abuser can convert.
Even secular society recognize that forming a small community with alcoholics (such as Alcoholic Anonymous) has been a tremendous help toward their addiction. How much more a community that is driven to form Christians? This is why Pope John Paul II was impressed with the NCW in the slums of Madrid. The Pope saw drunks stop drinking alcohol. He saw abusers stop abusing their wives. He saw bums getting a job, and he saw prostitutes giving up the life of prostitution.
Diana, congratulations for the great discussion! Your blog shows its true strength over the jungle when you introduce high quality and intellectually engaging posts like this one. People become attracted by the peaceful atmosphere, come eagerly express their point of view in an interesting and mature fashion.
DeleteThe jungle is unable to do this in whatever topic they bring up. They sweat, curse and call others names, but all in vain. There is no real conversation. They only have the same 10 people repeating themselves over and over ad nauseam! Jungle folks are losing their game. Why? Because they don't have the same spirit of honesty and beauty you have. Thank you for being an inspiration for everyone, dear Diana!
Catholic Church allows womem to leave their abusive husbands...provided they lead a chaste life..
DeleteSeparation of Married Couples
Married persons are obliged to live together in conjugal relations, unless a just cause frees them from this obligation. If one of the two commits adultery, it is reason for the other to live apart, unless the party that wishes to leave consented to the crime, or was the cause of it, or committed the same crime himself or herself. Tacit condoning of the crime means living in marital relations with the guilty person, without bringing legal accusation or leaving the person within six months.
Other reasons that justify separation are: If one party joins a non-Catholic sect; educates the offspring as non-Catholics; leads a criminal and despicable life; creates great bodily or spiritual danger to the other party; or if through cruelties he or she makes living together too difficult; and for other such reasons, which are to the innocent party so many legal causes to leave the guilty party by authority of the Bishop, or also by private authority, if the guilt of the other party is certain beyond doubt, and there is danger in delay.
Dear Superales,
DeleteOne would need to evaluate each situation on a case by case basis. There are many reasons why marriages went sour - financial problems, depression, a change in character of a spouse, mental illness, health problems, alcoholism, drugs, etc. Once a couple is experiencing a marital crisis, they need to get help as soon as possible. Getting help would be the FIRST option. Leaving should not be the first option. That should be the last option. If the husband, for example, is showing signs of depression, he needs medical attention otherwise the situation in the marriage can turn into a disaster (See the weblink below):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-44032/Man-kills-wife-children--shoots-himself.html
However, adultery is a different matter. Adultery is cheating on a spouse. I had a friend whose husband committed adultery, but she did not leave her husband. She fought for her marriage. The fact that her husband did not leave was a sign of hope. On the other hand, if she had left her husband the moment she learned of the adultery, it would only open the door for the other woman to steal her husband. Because she stayed, she and her husband were able to work out the problems with marriage counseling and with the support of their family and friends. Having a positive support is important. It was important to have friends encouraging her to fight for her marriage rather than having so-called friends telling her to throw out the cheating husband. Of course, there were a lot of tears and anguish, but they were able to get through it.
You also stated: "Other reasons that justify separation are: If one party joins a non-Catholic sect;"
I disagree with this. If my child or husband joins a non-Catholic denomination, I will not separate from them. I will pray for them. Prayer is a powerful tool. God will find a way to help them come home. Many times, the first place we need to evangelize would be our families.
Church allows separation as per the statement above taken from church teachings....individuals can CHOOSE to separate or not and Church will allow under those circumstances
DeleteDear Superales,
DeleteI agree that the Church allows separation, but let us hope and pray for reconciliation FIRST before we go to the last resort, which is separation.
Separation IS not the last resort. It may also lead back to reconciliation..as some married couples I know have done. It gives them space and time to reflect. Others are given a chance to live if spouse is a threat to their life and physically harmful
DeleteNo one can really say what is the Last Resort....
Dear Superales,
DeleteWhen a person marries, they made a vow before God to stay together for better, for worse, in sickness and in health. Therefore, separation is the last resort. The reason why there are so many divorces today is because at the first sign of trouble, couples bail out rather than tackle the difficulty first. It was much easier to separate than to solve the problem. If couples are to stay together, they must learn to tackle the everyday problems that comes with marriage first. When they learned to tackle the first problem that comes their way in their marriage, it will make them stronger to tackle the next problem that comes their way. Separation is the last resort.
Annulment should be the last resort, not separation....if the marriage can't be valid in the the first place.
DeleteSorry, Not when you are smacked and thrown against the wall too often. Bailing out is the solution and I'm not going to my grave due to a heavy fist. Some may change for a while, but the violence in them will remain forever.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:47 pm,
DeleteYou can choose to leave your marriage if you are abused. You have free will.
Dear Superales at 7:39 pm ,
DeleteAccording to the weblink below:
Rather, a Church tribunal (a Catholic Church court) declares that a marriage thought to be valid according to Church law actually fell short of at least one of the essential elements required for a binding union.
For a Catholic marriage to be valid, it is required that: (1) the spouses are free to marry; (2) they are capable of giving their consent to marry; (3) they freely exchange their consent; (4) in consenting to marry, they have the intention to marry for life, to be faithful to one another and be open to children; (5) they intend the good of each other; and (6) their consent is given in the presence of two witnesses and before a properly authorized Church minister. Exceptions to the last requirement must be approved by Church authority........
The tribunal process seeks to determine if something essential was missing at the moment of consent, that is, the time of the wedding. If so, the Church can declare that a valid marriage was never actually brought about on the wedding day.
http://www.foryourmarriage.org/catholic-marriage/church-teachings/annulments/
Here is the problem about getting an annulment.....a vast majority of marriages are valid at the time of the wedding day. The problem is no one can predict if your spouse was going to cheat on you in the future,"
Furthermore, most people who get a divorce is not because of physical abuse. The large majority of people who get a divorce is due to financial problems, infidelity, or lack of communication. These are issues that couples can resolve together. However, most people find it easier to separate. According to the weblink below:
"According to the Centers for Disease Control, the divorce rate in 2014 came in at 3.2 per 1,000 population, with the District of Columbia and 44 states reporting. Surprisingly, this figure is lower than any seen since 2000, although it does exclude data for California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana and Minnesota. Individuals contemplating divorce often find they wish to attempt to save their marriage before taking this drastic step, and Counseling in Hyde Park, Ohio may be of help........
The key lies in knowing when counseling may be of help. There are reasons two people fall in love, yet experience difficulties in their relationship. In many cases, it’s a matter of a breakdown in communication, as couples are working, raising a family and dealing with other aspects of life. They forget to make time for each other and the relationship disintegrates. For others, financial difficulties come into play or it may be a case of infidelity."
http://www.kuam.com/story/31300756/sam-nabil-counseling-services-reports-the-divorce-rate-in-america-is-declining
A spouse who occasions grave danger of soul or body to the other or to the children, or otherwise makes the common life unduly difficult, provides the other spouse with a reason to leave, either by a decree of the local ordinary [e.g., bishop] or, if there is danger in delay, even on his or her own authority. (CIC 1153)
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:39 pm,
DeleteGrave danger of soul??? Do you believe the soul can die?
Diana, quote above yours is from Canon law 1153....are your seriously asking this question?! SMH!
DeleteDear Superales,
DeleteCanon law 1153 has been corrected by the Vatican. The law now reads as grave mental or physical danger. The word "soul" is not in it. See the weblink below:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P45.HTM
Now, are you telling me that the soul can die? The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the soul is immortal.
The question is - "can the soul be in danger?" Not "can the soul die?".
DeleteThere is s difference Diana.
Dear Anonymous at 10:42 am,
DeleteThe soul is in danger only when it goes to Hell. And all souls that are already in Hell are suffering because they are separated from God.
No, the soul is not merely in danger when it goes to hell. It is lost when it goes to hell.
DeleteThe soul is in danger when it is in a state that it would go to hell, should its earthly life be over at that time.
Dear Anonymous at 12:59 pm,
DeleteI hope you realize that this is not an honest discussion. This kind of debate is childish. I asked whether the soul can die. All you needed to say was no. The Vatican realized that a human cannot endanger the soul in an abusive marriage.......the body....yes....but not the soul. So, the canon law in the Vatican website is read as grave mental and bodily danger.
" This is why Pope John Paul II was impressed with the NCW in the slums of Madrid. The Pope saw drunks stop drinking alcohol. He saw abusers stop abusing their wives. He saw bums getting a job, and he saw prostitutes giving up the life of prostitution. "
ReplyDeleteWhere did Pope John Paul II ever say that? Can you provide a reference to this claim that the pope saw all these things in the slums of Madrid?
Dear Anonymous at 10:08 am,
DeleteIt is in Kiko's book "The Kerygma". Lives were remarkably changed in the slums of Madrid.
I'm not asking whether Kiko claimed " Lives were remarkably changed in the slums of Madrid. "
DeleteI'm interested in your statement that the Pope (John Paul II) "saw drunks stop drinking alcohol. He saw abusers stop abusing their wives. He saw bums getting a job, and he saw prostitutes giving up the life of prostitution. "
So, please show us where your evidence is that this is true
In 1990, Pope John Paul II stated:
Delete""I too, as Bishop of Rome, have been able to verify the abundant fruits of personal conversion and fruitful missionary impulse in the many meetings I have had with the Neo-catechumenal Communities and their Pastors. Hence I acknowledge the Neo-catechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times. It is therefore my wish that the Brothers in the Episcopate - together with their presbyters - value and help this work for the new evangelization so that it may be implemented according to the lines proposed by its initiators." (Letter To Bishop Paul Josef Cordes 30th August 1990)"
Diana, NCW may have been a perfect fit for the "slums of Madrid". Is it not for the extremely poor, depraved gypsies, the reject of the society who know no moral norms and have no concept of holiness? Then why don't you target those people with the slum mentality and life style, why do you go after the rich and well established, morally grounded Catholics?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:39 am,
DeleteBecause the rich and well established, morally grounded Catholics also need Christ. Since when do they not need Him? You will find alcoholics, abusers, abused, divorce, suicide etc. even among the rich and well-established, morally grounded Catholics.
The church has access to these people, we don't need NCW to interfere. However, for the slum people, NCW might be a perfect fit.
DeleteDear Diana at 11:27 AM,
Deleteyour quote from the pope in 1990 has nothing to do with your claim that:
"This is why Pope John Paul II was impressed with the NCW in the slums of Madrid. The Pope saw drunks stop drinking alcohol. He saw abusers stop abusing their wives. He saw bums getting a job, and he saw prostitutes giving up the life of prostitution."
You really can't justify this, can you.
Dear Anonymous at 2:31 pm,
DeletePope John Paul II said he saw the "conversions". When a drunk stops drinking alcohol, an abuse stops abusing, and a prostitute give up the life of prostitution.....that is called "conversion." What do you call it?
Why does the Church have a hard time beatifying people who work for justice and non-violence? If it was not for Pope Francis, do you think Bishop Romero, would have been beatified?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:44 am,
DeleteNonresistance to evil has nothing to do with "SPEAKING OUT" against an injustice. Bishop Romero SPOKE out against poverty, social injustice, assassination, and torture. He was killed as a result of it. Kiko Arguello also spoke out against same sex marriage in Rome during Family Day, and he is being persecuted by gay activists. Speaking out against a social injustice is not the same as "nonresistance to evil." Below is the difference:
1. Regarding Mahatma Gandhi , he SPOKE out against the British occupation of India. But when a British hit Gandhi in the face, he did not hit back. That is called "NOT RESISTING evil."
2. Regarding Martin Luther King Jr., he SPOKE out against racial segregation, but when police officers came to unfairly arrest him for practicing his right to free expression, he did NOT RESIST this unfairness.
The reason these two men were able to make a tremendous impact and change was not because they spoke out, but because of their nonresistance to evil. On national television, the nation saw Blacks NOT fighting back as they were being attacked by white supramists groups. This was what won the hearts of America, and they stood up alongside the Blacks.
"Kiko Arguello also spoke out against same sex marriage in Rome during Family Day."
DeleteDiana, is this not double talking? He also said:
"Not only in this area but also in other areas you must not resist evil: at a family level, a personal level, etc., accepting your reality of neurosis, of homosexual tendencies, of shyness."
How do you accept homosexual tendencies and not the homo marriage?
Dear Anonymous at 11:32 am,
DeleteHow do you become a holy saint if you cannot recognize your sins? The reality is that we are sinners and we have sinned. Alcohol Anonymous also teach the same thing. The road to recovery is to FIRST recognize that you are an alcoholic or that you have a problem with alcohol.
Then you fight it and resist until you overcome. Why do you preach submission?
DeleteWow, do you wanna turn homosexuals into holy saints? The patron saints of fags? You must be kidding. Or perhaps, levitating... Lol.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:48 am,
DeleteYou stated: "Wow, do you wanna turn homosexuals into holy saints? The patron saints of fags? You must be kidding. Or perhaps, levitating... Lol."
According to Jesus Christ: "But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.” (Matthew 11:24).
Wow, that is truly amazing! Gosh, what do you exactly see in that verse?
DeleteLeniency toward Sodom may come from their lack of knowing the Lord! No means from their homosexuality...
Dear Anonymous at 11:44 am,
DeleteKiko never said to submit to homosexuality. He said to accept that you have homosexual tendencies, to accept that we are sinners.
To resist against evil is not submission. That is what you call to love your enemies and those who persecute you. This is a command from Christ. It did not come from Kiko or anyone else. When one practices this the way Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi did, it causes an impact that people do not forget.
Dear Anonymous at 12:21 pm,
DeleteIt means that we are not to judge because even a homosexual can convert. Do you not believe the power of the Holy Spirit?
Matthew 21:31-32 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Well Diana, all I can tell you it is a very slippery slope NCW is taking here. Now, we understand much better, how you are driven into dependency by unwittingly exposing and using whatever weaknesses you have against you. Very smart and shrewd. Demanding but reckless. One day, perhaps not in the distant future, this recklessness will sink the ship of the NCW. You will en d up going back to the slums. Goodbye.
DeleteWhat 's problem Diana? It is ok to be gay.
DeleteNCW should value respect Gay community.
They can help NCW with their numbers.
Dear Anonymous at 8:14 pm,
DeleteWe always respect the person (the sinner). It is the sin that we do not approve.
Diana, this does not add up! You say people with homosexual tendencies should not resist, but accept their homosexual tendencies and acknowledge that they are sinners. Hmmm. How come homosexual tendencies are sinful now? You said it is not a sin, unless one lives the life of a gay! Do you see the difference?
DeleteIs someone with homosexual tendencies a sinner just because of these tendencies? Or the person becomes a sinner if follows the gay lifestyle? I hope, Diana, you can distinguish between the to things. You cannot cry out at someone saying "sinner" if the person does not commit sin.
The same time if someone follows a gay lifestyle and becomes a sinner like that, then how can you tell this person not to resist the evil of his or her sin? How can you preach an acceptance of being a gay, when it is sinful? This would enslave the person in the sinful lifestyle. Is this the purpose of this teaching, to enslave people to sin?
Dear Anonymous at 1:56 pm,
DeleteI never said that gay people should not resist homosexuality. Go back and read what I actually said in my comments.
Your founder claimed: "You must not resist evil: at a family level, a personal level, etc., accepting your reality of neurosis, of homosexual tendencies, of shyness."
DeleteYou posted: "He said to accept that you have homosexual tendencies, to accept that we are sinners." The same time you claimed one is not sinner just because one has homosexual tendencies. So...? You have managed to absolutely confuse everyone.
What is the reality of homosexual tendencies? Gay lifestyle? Why must not we resist that? Is there any chance to make this clear? Who is the sinner and why? Who is not sinner and why? What do you want to say about gays and gay tendencies?
Dear Anonymous at 5:44 pm,
DeleteHaving a homosexual tendency is a disorder. It is not a sin. However, if a gay person has sex with a person of the same gender, he/she is committing the sin of fornication. The ACT becomes a sin....the sin of fornication. Therefore, when a person accepts that he/she has homosexual tendency, he/she is admitting and accepting that he/she has a disorder. When he/she has sex with the person of the same gender, they are committing the sin of fornication. I hope that is clear enough for you.
Accepting that you have a disorder of being homosexual does not mean that you are practicing fornication of homosexuality. A person who is gay can be chaste. Just because they are chaste does not mean that they are no longer gay. This is a disorder that they will struggle with. In the same way, we are sinners. We can live a life of virtue, but that does not mean we will NEVER fall into sin. Sin is something that we all struggle with.
Diana, are you living in the middle ages? Having a gay tendency is not a disorder! Following gay lifestyle is not a disorder either. It is sin by the Catholic Church but not disorder. Who told you it was a disorder? Your Kiko claimed the person must not resist gay tendencies but accept sinfulness. He said that very clearly. Don't you agree with him? It is okay to admit that Kiko has misspoken here or there. We could understand that. We are all human, after all.
DeleteHaving a gay tendency does not mean someone is gay. Bisexuals have gay tendencies but they are not homosexuals, they are bisexuals. You confuse things beyond recognition. How about transgenders, male or female? Are they sinners just because they are trannies? With whom can they hook up then, with people of their new gender or the old?
Another blunder: how can you call someone gay if the person is "chaste", not engaged in relationship? Then it is just an assumption that you don't have a right to make. Who do you think you are to make these assumptions and call the person a sinner?! You said gay tendencies don't make one a sinner. Then why do you call this person a sinner?!
What makes one a sinner? The church teaches that you commit a sin when you deliberately and willfully choose to violate a commandment. There is no such thing as accidental sin or sin by assumption. Does it exist in the neo?
This example shows the boundary line of decency that people feel NCW is passing all the time. You prey on the weaknesses of someone, instill guilt of sinfulness for no reason, break the person and then push this person into submission to the catechism overlord and the neo lifestyle. This is the same recruiting technique Protestants use following the instructions of John Calvin.
Dear Anonymous at 5:50 pm,
DeleteYou stated: "Having a gay tendency is not a disorder! Following gay lifestyle is not a disorder either. It is sin by the Catholic Church but not disorder. Who told you it was a disorder?"
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (capitalization is mine):
CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically DISORDERED." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
Obviously, you did not know that the Catholic Church also teaches that homosexuality is a disorder. As for chastity, a person can be chaste regardless of whether they are straight, gay, or lesbian.
Diana, please, be honest. You said: "Having a homosexual tendency is a disorder." No, it is not! According to the CCC you quoted, the act is considered a disorder by tradition, but the tendency is not considered an act. Please, admit that you have misspoken!
DeleteIn my opinion following a gay lifestyle is not a disorder. CCC confirms that unless you engage in sex, it is not a sin and not considered a disorder either.
Why don't you reflect on the other questions? Don't they qualify for your attention? You are very selective in responding, to say the least. You choose by convenience what part of a comment you pick on and then you ignore everything else. Is this a honest thing to ignore whatever you don't like, Diana?
Dear Anonymous at 10:55 pm,
DeleteYou stated: "According to the CCC you quoted, the act is considered a disorder by tradition, but the tendency is not considered an act."
According to Dictionary.com, "tendency" is defined as an ACT in some direction. I was not being dishonest. You simply do not know the definition of "tendency" or even "chastity."
Diana, get real, a tendency is not an act, whatever you internet dictionary is telling you. Do you understand the following sentence:
Delete"Not only in this area but also in other areas you must not resist evil: at a family level, a personal level, etc., accepting your reality of neurosis, of homosexual tendencies, of shyness."
It is a demand that you must not resist evil, isn't it? There are the following two levels of evil on this area he is talking about:
1. evil at the family level and
2. evil at the personal level.
The following three examples are cited:
a. the evil posed by the reality of neurosis,
b. the evil posed by the reality of homosexual tendencies and
c. the evil posed by shyness.
The demand is that you must not resist these evils! Is this clear for you? Please, explain it if you think the demand is about something else. Thanks.
Dear Anonymous at 11:39 pm,
DeleteAre you a homosexual? Is this why you do not want to believe that homosexuality is a disorder?
DeleteDiana fails to understand basic catholic moral theology . Homosexuality is gift from God to be used for the service of God. Listen to pope Francis . Who am I to judge?
Dear Anonymous at 9:08 am,
DeleteThe act of homosexuality is a sin. Sin does not come from God. And sin does not serve God. Sin brings death and separates us from God.
Dear Diana, I think you nailed it! The guy is gay, no question about it. Saying that homosexual tendency is not a sin is in error. Saying that there is nothing to resist in homosexuality is a mistake. Defending the gay agenda is from gays! This person is one of them. Period.
DeleteDiana, i posted early. Priest called me he said 2.25am partly right. There is no formal Gay Mass on Guam. However there is a small group of gays who attemd a Mass at a southern parish where they are accepted as lectors Ems. No Gay Mass on Island. Dignity presence is here.
DeleteWait a minute Anonymous, was it not Kiko Arguelo, the founder of NCW who said that? "You must not resist evil: (...) your reality of neurosis, of homosexual tendencies, of shyness." This is how the whole discussion, disagreement and debate started here!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:31 pm,
DeleteActually, Kiko stated, "accepting your reality of neurosis, of homosexual tendencies, of shyness." Why did you remove the word "accepting"?
You also have (....) between what Kiko said about not resisting evil and accepting ourselves as sinners. Why did you leave out the rest of the sentences? You are taking things out of context when you leave out sentences.
Diana, it is considered extremely outdated what you say. Homosexual tendencies are not a disorder! It is so 20th century thinking. In the 21st century the Supreme Court legalized gay marriage and stroke down all resistance to it. So what are you talking about??
DeleteThe psychology as science investigated gay behavior and concluded that it is not a psychological disorder! You cannot find a psychology textbook anymore where gays are called disordered! If it is not a psychological disorder, ten what kind of disorder you think it should be?
Some people think the disorder is that they had been born into the wrong body and they are forced to live in a different gender from that one their identity dictates. They invest time, money and energy to surgically change their gender to the proper one. Do you condemn them? If you do, why? They only correct a disorder that happened at their conception and they were born into the wrong gender body.
I don't tell you if I am a gay. But I am not. Who are you to ask these question from others? I know gay people, both closeted and out-of-closet gays who live in relations of mutual respect. I know gays who completely gave up sex live for religious reason. They became extremely frustrated and depressed. Their religion pushes them into excruciating misery. Is this your goal and the goal of NCW, as well?
Diana, this is what the quote states: you must not resist, you have to accept those things. Thanks.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:02 pm,
DeleteSo now, why is this quote different than the one you originally quoted in your previous comment at 12:31 pm? What happened to the word "evil" and the rest of the quote?
I don't know the solution to your puzzle, Diana. I don't know what happened to the word "evil" and the rest of the quote. Perhaps, you know the answer... As far as I know, it was still there the last time I saw it in the whole grammatical sentence. It is you who avoid understanding and responding to the sentence. Too bad.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:01 pm,
DeleteI am not the one quoting Kiko in different ways. I also notice that you do not have anything to say about St. Rita who did not resist her abusive husband. Perhaps, you can tell her your opinion about how asinine she was to stay with her abusive husband. The holy saints in Heaven can hear our prayers.
St. Rita is your ideal woman from the Middle Ages, voluntarily submitting to violence and praying for the death of her own children. We don't need no Middle Age women ideals in our time. We need women who stand up for what is right and protect their children from abuse.
DeleteNow it is your turn to add whatever you want to add to the quote of your founder who demanded a nonresistance to homosexual tendencies. Of course, your silence will also be an answer. Those questions you leave unanswered will testify against you and against the neo.
Dear Anonymous at 11:54 am,
DeleteIt was the Catholic Church who venerated and honored St. Rita because she became a disciple of Christ. Christ said that those who wished to become my disciple must take up his/her cross and follow Him. And where did Christ go? To die on the cross.
"She asked God to take her sons rather than submit them to the mortal sin of murder."
ReplyDeleteThis is saintly, indeed. Praying for the death of your sons and being happy when they die. Something you have to be a saint to survive with good conscience. Lol.
Is St. Rita the patroness saint of NCW? How about St. Johanna who fought the British in battle? She would not have been particularly enamored by anyone demanding submission to the oppressor.
Dear Anonymous at 11:29 am,
DeleteThis shows that St. Rita loved her sons so much that she would rather have God take them before they commit a mortal sin and spend their time eternally in Hell. What mother wants her sons to go to Hell?
As for St. Joan of Arc, she did not become a saint because of her battles with the British, but because of her obedience to God and for the suffering she endured in her trial she after she was captured by the British that made her a saint.
Are you implying that it is okay for a woman to be physically abused by her husband? Let's just say that an abused women with children puts her children at risk too. Is this right?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:56 pm,
DeleteI never made that implication. I have always stated all along that the NCW, Couples for Christ, and other Catholic organization are there to help the ENTIRE family. They help the abused and the abuser. The entire family (including the children) need help.
Many people outside the Catholic faith also recognize the problem of domestic violence. This is why you also have community outreach programs such as Alcoholic Anonymous, Family Violence Shelters, Island Girl Power, etc. The Catholic Church is not the only ones who recognize the existence of domestic violence. The problem is WHAT are you doing about it??? The NCW is only one organization in the Catholic Church who can offer help for it has been known to save some marriages. So, why get rid of an organization that has helped the marriages of some people?
The problem with those secular organizations is that many of them work with only one spouse - usually the woman. And some of them encourage divorce.
DeleteDear Diana, the NCW is an "organixation" now? Don't tell Kiko that.
DeleteIn any case, have you not being paying attention? You ask "So, why get rid of an organization that has helped the marriages of some people?"
The answer is that the NCW does far more than that. It also divides families; it abuses the liturgy; it is narcissistic and arrogant; it presumes to much and violates the person; it distorts theology and the true understanding of God; it excuses lying - and in fact is full of lies (see for example your comment about Pope John Paul II above, which can only be seen as an outright lie). Shall I go on?
Dear Anonymous at 10:03 pm,
DeleteOn the contrary, it brings family together especially through the morning prayer. Marcissistic, arrogance, and the rest of the sinful behaviors....that is something you find in people from all walks of life. In fact, you can even find those people in the regular parish Mass or the Traditional Latin Mass.
Regarding Pope John Paul II, that was not a lie. If you do not understand what conversion means, you can look it up in a Catholic dictionary.
You did not say that Pope John Paul II simply recognized the "conversions" within the NCW. You were much more specific than that. You said "The Pope saw drunks stop drinking alcohol. He saw abusers stop abusing their wives. He saw bums getting a job, and he saw prostitutes giving up the life of prostitution"
DeleteThis is quite specific. But it is not based on anything the Pope actually said, is it? This is simply your invention, and you continue to lie about it.
Dear Anonymous at 10:55 am,
DeleteThose were the conversions that had happened in the slums of Madrid. I had given those specific examples because those conversions were known to have occurred in the NCW. When the Pope testified that he had seen conversions in the NCW, what does conversion mean to you? That is a question I asked you., and you did not answer.
St. Wilgefortis...German saint...pray for her intercession for women who wish to be liberated from abusive husbands. One can choose to leave if husbands are abusive if they so desire...
ReplyDeleteDear Superales,
DeleteSt. Wilgefortis was NEVER married. She did not have any husband. See the weblink below:
http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=465
And yet she was elevated by the Church as patroness to liberate women in abusive relationships...
DeleteI didn't write that she was married....guessing you were not aware of her till now
DeleteDear Superales,
DeleteYou are correct. You did not say that St. Wilgefortis was married. However, she never had an abusive husband because she was never married. She had an abusive father. It was her father who crucified her. The way she was liberated from her abusive father was through death on the cross....not by leaving him.
My son is Gay living with his partner for three years. I welcomed my son's partner into our home. I expected my son to get married bring grandchildren.. Instead God gave me another son to accompany my son on his journey. Sunday's we go to Mass together as a family. Our priest said its ok for gay partners to go to Mass Holy Communion. Our priest is cool he welcomes gay community to his parish Gay community now meets at a parish every Sunday here on Island. Should you be gay or lesbian please join us Sunday for fellowship.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:25 am,
DeleteYou must be from the Episcopal Church on Guam. Gays and Lesbians are also welcome in the Catholic Church. If they live a chaste life, they may receive holy communion with us. If they are living with a partner and not living a chaste life, they cannot receive holy communion with us. The same goes for heterosexual unmarried couples who are living together.
No. Catholic I go to catholic parish on island. Not Episcopal Church.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:15 am,
DeleteThere are no Catholic Masses for only gays and lesbians. The Catholic Mass is open to everyone, but not everyone can receive holy communion.
Hate the sin but love the sinner.
DeleteI was blacklisted from the family for about three years simply because when speaking to a loved niece who is gay I stated that the really sad reality of your relationship is that we will never see the beautiful children God will bless you with.
Who are we to dictate how a person lives? It is however necessary to speak in love for those who we love. God will do the rest.
There is a Mass for gays Diana you just don't know about it. Gay community meets Wednesday evening Tumon where a priest says a house mass. 34 men attemd the mass from all over Island.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:23 pm,
DeleteA house Mass???? First you tell me that it was a Catholic Mass on Sunday. Now, you are telling me that it is a Mass on Wednesday. I am sorry, Anonymous. I believe you are badly mistaken especially since you cannot even get the days straight.
Homosexuality is disordered stunted growth Diana. Unacceptable to church teaching.
DeleteAlarming comments here support gay agenda.
Gay agenda is supported on Island by a small majority groups in private and public sector.
However, I'm not aware of a " Gay Mass" as mentioned by 6.23pm. 6.23pm possibly refers to dignity which is a group,of Gays Lesbians following church teaching but who need support. Dignity is an accepted support group. Dignity possibly could hold a Mass with permission of our Archbishop. 6.23pm gives impression Gays hold their own Liturgy . Doubt this information. As you say Diana even a confusion of Sunday Mass and Wednesday Evening. Called several priest's none knew of the gay mass. Will phone chancery to ask and get back to you. Thank you.
Diana, Jesus did not teach us to be passive. Jesus also resisted evil like what Chuck White said in his blog.
ReplyDelete"Jesus resisted the evil of Satan in the desert [ Mt. 4:1-11]; he resisted the evil of the men who would stone the woman caught in adultery [John 8:1-11]; he drove the merchants and their animals from the temple [Mt. 21:12]; and he resisted the evil of the Pharisee’s disciples who would trap him with the question, “Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” [ Mt. 22:15-22]."
Dear Anonymous at 7:40 am,
DeleteChuck White twisted the gospel to fit his own agenda. Please take a closer look at the scriptures. Christ resisted the Devil's temptations in the desert (Matthew 4:1-11). In the same way, we are also supposed to resist the devil's temptations. Lust, pornography, money, and many other things can tempt us to sin. We resist these temptations.
Jesus did not touch any of the men who tried to stone the woman. He corrected them by teaching them not to judge. He said, "those without sin cast the first stone."
Jesus did not touch any of the merchants. According to the Holy Bible, Christ overturned the tables and the seats of those who were selling in the temple. He did not lay a hand on any human being (See Matthew 21:12). He also spoke the truth when the Pharisees' tried to trap him with the question "Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not."
This is how we are also supposed to act when we resist evil. We remain righteous rather than give in to temptation, we correct the brother and speak the truth, and lastly we pray a lot just as St. Paul instructed in Ephesians 6:10-20. This is the kind of resistance against evil a Christian shows.
Furthermore, Christ allowed Himself to be beaten, scourged, spit upon, and crucified. He did not raise a single finger against His abusers. Instead, He forgave them. Chuck White and the jungle are correct in at least one thing. They claimed that Christ did not teach passivity, which is correct. What Chright taught was revolutionary. It is radically new and goes beyond the established principle and norm.
The Catholic Church honors and venerates St. Rita and St. Monica who did not resist their abusive husbands. St. Wilgefortis was also venerated because she did not resist her abusive father. The Church recognize the Holy Spirit in these women because what they did was impossible for any human to do. Only the Holy Spirit is capable of such things.
Of course, this does not mean that women are not allowed to leave an abusive marriage. The Church says that you may leave especially if you feel your life is in danger. The reason for my post is only to show that Chuck White and the jungle was incorrect about Kiko's teachings. His teachings are aligned with the Bible and with what Christ taught.
It's hilarious!! LOL!!! Tim Rohr is saying the Way has taken over Dept. of Land Management. Now, he's saying that the Attorney General office is also compromised by the Way. LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:00 am,
DeleteIt is only a matter of time when Tim announces that the NCW also took over the Governor's Office. :-)
I wonder what Rohr expects to gain? Even if the Declaration of a Deed Restriction was placed in the Certificate of Titles in the beginning, it would still say that the RMS property belongs to the Archdiocese of Agana. So, what difference would it make.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:42 am,
DeleteActually, it would make a difference in the story he would invent. Even if the Declaration of Deed Restriction were put in since the beginning, Tim Rohr would STILL say the certificates are a fake. Only this time, he would invent a story claiming that the NAME of the ownership stated in the certificates are wrong. He would claim the ownership to be the Redemptoris Mater Seminary since the Declaration of Deed Restriction was on the certificate of titles. Of course, his story of the NCW taking over DLM would remain the same.
@Anon. 10:00 am, looks like Timmy took out his comment about the AG's office being compromised.
DeleteYep. You were right, Diana. It's in the news. The Declaration of Deed Restriction have now been placed in the memorial of the Certificate of Titles, and JW is still calling it a fake. The new story they've invented is exactly as you said.
Delete@Anon. 5:47 pm, don't worry. It turned out to be a good thing. People now know that having the deed restriction on the memorial or not was never the issue. People now see that Rohr has an agenda.
Delete