AnonymousJanuary 1, 2016 at 10:46 AM
So are you saying that the bishop has no place in the hierarchy of the Neocatechumenal Way. All authority comes the catechists.
In my previous comment I said that I heard the new instruction at the Beginning of the Year Convivience of 2008. Father Pius said that the instructions came from Kiko who received it from the Pope. For some unknown reason, some people think that the bishop was cut off from getting the information. I repeat: I heard Father Pius say that the new instructions came from Kiko who received it from the Pope. I never said that Father Pius received the instructions from Kiko who in turn received the same instructions from the Pope. But for some reason, some people think the hierarchy of the Way is as follows:
Pope - Kiko Arguello - Gusippe Gennarini-- Father Pius.
This way of thinking is incorrect. The structure of the Way according to the APPROVED Statutes is:
Pope - Kiko Arguello (through the Pontifical Council of the Laity) - Bishop - National Responsibles.
First of all, Kiko Arguello is the Founder of the NCW and part of the International Team of Catechists. According to the APPROVED Statues of the Way in Article III Section 5 and 6, the role of the International Team is to:
5th. to maintain regular relations with the diocesan bishops;
6th. to maintain regular relations with the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the dicastery to which the Holy Father has entrusted the responsibility of accompanying the Neocatechumenal Way,9 as well as with the other dicasteries of the Holy See within the scope of their respective competence, keeping the Pontifical Council of the Laity informed;Therefore, the approved Statutes of the Way placed Kiko Arguello (the founder) between the Pope and the Bishops. As founder of the NCW, Kiko is required by the Vatican to maintain regular relations with the diocesan bishops and with the Holy See through the Pontifical Council for the Laity. If anyone disagrees with this set-up, they may write a letter of complaint to the Vatican because they were the ones who established this set-up in the first place.
Secondly, as the current consultor of the Pontifical Council of the Laity, Kiko Arguello maintains regular relations with the Pontifical Council of the Laity and other dicasteries of the Holy See.
The new instructions on how to celebrate the Eucharist did not come from Father Pius. It came from the Pope and went to Kiko Arguello and then to Archbishop Myers (Archbishop of Newark) and then to Gusippe Gennarini (the head catechists of the United States). By the time the new instructions came to the territory of Guam, Archbishop Apuron was made aware of it along with Father Pius. Father Pius gave us the new instructions on how to celebrate the Eucharist. He said that these instructions came from Kiko who in turn received it from the Pope. THIS does not mean that Archbishop Apuron was skipped or was unaware of the new instructions. So, anonymous, please do not put words that I never said in my mouth. All authority comes from the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church. The new instruction came from the Pope.
Finally, regarding the controversy of January 20, 2012, in which stories were circulated around saying the NCW conspired to get approval without the Pope's knowledge, this is what I have to say:
The only place I could find these conspiracy stories were in all the anti-Neo websites such as the one below:
http://church-mouse.lanuera.com/new/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=37
The same conspiracy stories were copied and pasted all over the anti-Neo websites. That is the only place you can find them in. However, a decree WAS published and APPROVED, which was dated on January 8, 2012. It was a decree that approved ALL the celebrations of the Neocatechumenal Way.
Of course, ALL rites in the NCW Celebration not found in the Liturgical books would need the approval of the Vatican.....NOT the rites that are ALREADY approved in the liturgical books.
According to the Vatican Information Service Bulletin:
APPROVAL FOR CELEBRATIONS OF NEO-CATECHUMENAL WAY
VATICAN CITY, 20 JAN 2012 (VIS) - The Pontifical Council for the Laity today published a decree approving the celebrations contained in the Catechetical Directory of the Neo-Catechumenal Way. The decree is dated 8 January, Feast of the Baptism of the Lord, and bears the signatures of Cardinal Stanislaw Rylko and Bishop Josef Clemens, respectively president and secretary of the council.
The text published today reads: "By a decree of 11 May 2008 the Pontifical Council for the Laity gave definitive approval to the Statutes of the Neo-Catechumenal Way. Subsequently, following due consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, by a decree of 26 December 2010, the council gave approval to the publication of the Catechetical Directory as a valid and binding instrument for the catechesis of the Neo-Catechumenal Way.
"Now, pursuant to articles 131 and 133 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the Apostolic Constitution 'Pastor Bonus' on the Roman Curia, the Pontifical Council for the Laity, having received the 'nulla osta' of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, grants approval to those celebrations contained in the Catechetical Directory of the Neo-Catechumenal Way which are not, by their nature, already regulated by the liturgical books of the Church".http://www.archindy.org/criterion/vatican/2012/vis0120.html
Diana, what about what Tim said in his blog.
ReplyDelete"So then what happened to this decree from January 8? Inside the Vatican continues:
Benedict XVI found out about the text of the decree a few days before the meeting on January 20. He found it illogical and mistaken. He ordered that it be scrapped and rewritten according to his guidelines."
Absolutely. Pope Benedict would never approve the way the NCW receive communion. You only need to read his own writings and teachings on the liturgy to know that.
DeleteDiana, and anyone else that claims otherwise, simply demonstrate how simple minded and ignorant they are.
Dear Anonymous at 2:48 pm,
DeleteFor your information, Pope Benedict XVI celebrated Mass in the Neocatechumenal Way when he was Cardinal Ratzinger. When he became Pope, he definitely made a change in the way the Body of Christ was received. The NCW now receives the Body of Christ standing up. Then we sit and consume the Body of Christ together with the priest. The change he made was taking the Body of Christ standing rather than sitting.
Dear Anonymous at 2:18 pm,
DeleteI had to go into the jungle to find that quote because you did not leave a weblink. At any rate, I found it. I looked at Tim's source. He quoted "Inside the Vatican." "Inside the Vatican" leads to an article written by Sandro Magister. Sandro Magister is the author of an anti-Neo website, which is found here:
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350922?eng=y
Sandro Magister has been known to criticize Pope Francis, and he was banned from the Vatican Press 6 months ago for publishing a draft letter of the Pope that was not meant to be published because it was only a draft. He is also involve in a scandal for releasing a letter signed by 12 cardinals. Three of the cardinals said they never signed that letter. (See the weblinks below):
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/10/13/cardinals-letter-is-a-new-vatileaks-says-cardinal-muller/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2015/06/holy-see-pulls-press-credentials-for-prominent-vatican-journalist-over-encyclical-leak/
So, your argument is - the author is biased against the NCW, and therefore you don't need to actually answer anything that is raised.
DeleteWeak. You say there is a permission, yet nobody in the world is able to produce it. We conclude - it does not exist.
You say Pope Benedict gave you secret permission - even though everything he has written about the liturgy would contradict that. We conclude that he did not, in fact, give that permission.
You continue on, because Kiko told you to. That's the truth - there is no denying it, even if you try to distract or throw in some red herrings.
The consensus, not just from Sandro Magister, is that there was a decree written up that would have given full written authority to the NCW to do what they do in the Eucharist, but Pope Benedict stopped it. Whether or not later on, the NCW conspired to get him out of his office is a matter of conjecture.
Dear Anonymous at 6:06 pm,
DeleteWhat the Pope gave us was never a secret. As I pointed out before, our Eucharistic celebration is on the Internet. In fact, Pope Benedict is fully aware of how the NCW celebrates the Mass because he celebrated the Mass with the NCW when he was a Cardinal.
What did Pope Benedict XVI stopped? Since the beginning, the NCW wanted approval of the rites in the celebration that are not in the liturgical books. That approval was given in the Decree dated January 8th and even announced on January 20th. Why should the NCW concern itself with liturgical approval that has already been approved?
As for Sandro Magister, I would not rely on a person who was dismissed by the Vatican and is involved in a scandal over a letter given to the Pope in which 12 Cardinals were supposed to have signed. The reliability of that letter is questionable in that the wording is not the same, and three Cardinals came out, claiming they did not sign that letter.
Diana!
ReplyDeleteIm Back! Happy New Year!
Try not to entertain anything rohr. Hes obviously loosing the battle because he already lost his mind. Tell tell signs are in his recent obscene comments. How can he stand placing the Body of Christ on the same tongue that speaks evil?
Stay the course and fight the good fight. Continue to share the many graces that can be found in the way and the many miracles that have happened through the experiences of the brothers and sisters.
Stop entertaining his(rohr) nonsense. No one else is giving him the floor so his only outlet is his own blog. Dont be fooled by his page views. Anyone familiar with web marketing will know that if you want to continue to show up on search results, all you have to do is choose you words wisely. His Articles are all repetitive.
We need to move forward and lets do this knowing that we do have every permission to celebrate the way we are. All they are saying is, we dont have this permission. Thats fine because they could say the same thing about anything else. Its like rohr telling me I dont have any money in the bank and me telling him that I have millions. Whether he believes me or not is of no importance. What matters is that I know I have the millions.
-Jokers Wild
Welcome back Jokers Wild and Happy New Year!
DeleteI apologize for the late reply. I have been very busy over the Christmas season with family, friends, parish, and community. :-)
I agree with what you say. After all, we already said that we have permission from Rome just as we have already said many times that the RM seminary is still under the Archdiocese of Agana. The fact that the chose not to believe was never our problem. A man with an agenda does not care about the truth. The Archdiocese publish the certificate of title showing the ownership, and even that is not enough because a man with an agenda is not interested in the truth.
The NCW have never kept the Eucharistic celebration secret. Many people, including Rome, know how the NCW celebrates the Mass. Even people who are not walking in the Way have attended the Eucharistic celebration. How the NCW celebrated the Mass was never kept a secret.
Just so you know, One of the first things that kept me away from experiencing the NCW was the former way in which the communities received the Eucharist at Mass. I was aware at the time that the communicant would receive both Body and Blood sitting. It was later on at which time the changes were made that I felt more open to the NCW. I have never seen so much reverence towards the Body and Blood than in the NCW celebration. The moment that the Eucharist remains in our hands and close to hearts is miraculous. Ive never contemplated over His body in this way. I feel that the moment we have Him in our hands and then to consume him entirely, this moment is worth more than any other time Ive knelt in adoration.
DeleteThe intimacy of the Eucharist is a life changing experience. I am blessed knowing that I worship among brothers and sisters and that no one is anonymous. I can also share that on many occasions there have been people who are not in community who come to the Eucharistic celebration. One thing that stands out to me is how Many come broken and looking for healing. This is a grace for us and especially for them.
Im not sure if you were there during the Sunday Convivence in which Fr. Pius invited all those that prepare the grounds for the Eucharist but it was beautiful to know that the NCW recognizes how important the Mass is that every so often we gather to make sure that we are all preparing the liturgy and all the signs in a way that upholds the Celebration of Eucharist.
-Jokers Wild
Dear Jokers Wild,
DeleteI felt the same way. What touched me about the Eucharist was the intimacy of it between Christ and the brothers around me. I actually had tears in my eyes.
MARANATHA is a Greek expression from two Aramaic words that appears in the Bible at 1 Corinthians 16:22.
DeleteBased on interpretation, it can mean: The Lord is Coming!; Come, Lord!; Our Lord, Come!; Our Lord has come!; O Lord, come!; or Our Lord Comes!.
MARANATHA.....I am glad he came and found your heart open Diana