AnonymousJanuary 8, 2015 at 11:44 PM
A Redemptoris Mater Seminary is a diocesan seminary that operates with the help of the NCW. The NCW stuffs these seminaries with vocations, thus resolving the most burning issue of most dioceses (definitely that of the Archdiocese of Agana, which in the past had to resort to importing priests). If an ordinary wants this kind of help in his diocese, he accepts that these vocations come as a result of a faith formation that needs to be continued throughout the seminary formation and later in the life of priestly ministry. If an ordinary does not accept this, that diocese shouldn't have an RMS seminary. It is like when someone wants a cow in order to have it's milk: this person would have to accept the conditions which the cow needs to survive and be able to give milk. Do not get a cow if you are not willing to feed it.
To ensure the proper faith formation of the students, the NCW itinerant team responsible for the Way in the US is included in the board of guarantors of the RMS of Guam. They are the ones responsible for filling it up with students, so think before you want to kick them out. If they are taken out (which is ultimately the decision of the local ordinary, and not of any group of concerned or not concerned individuals), Guam local Church would have to fill her seminary by herself (which, it seems frankly, she wouldn't be able to do).
There are 102 RMS seminaries around the world right now. Apparently all of these seminaries operate successfully to serve the local and the universal Church. To my knowledge, no complaint has EVER surfaced to the effect that the diocesan priests who had been formed in these seminaries are worse than priests formed in other seminaries, or that they showed partiality in their service of the local Church where they had been assigned (such as not serving the whole parish, only the NCW communities), or that they administered the sacraments irreverently. As far as I know, they serve the parishes to the best of their abilities and, once they have done that, nourish their faith through the NCW itinerary.
In view of these facts I must conclude that the RMS seminaries (filled up by the NCW) are an immense plus to the dioceses they operate in, and through their openness and missionary impulse, to the universal Church.
I would invite all those who think or feel that they dislike the existence and operation of the RMS of Guam to ponder these facts, think of the future of the Church in the Pacific and, putting aside their feelings of hurt and anger over some reassigned clergy, support the wise decision of the lawful hierarchy to preserve this gift of the Holy Spirit.
AMEN!!!
ReplyDeleteChatholics of Guam need to ponder this question....
ReplyDeletewhat does Guam need.....priest or profit?
AnonymousJanuary 9, 2015 at 9:01 AM - Jungle obviously profit. Look at Tim's self proclaim accolade. Tim saying: LOOK WHAT I done! I'm so righteous, look people.... Phsssh Only God will know the state of his salvation.
ReplyDeleteReally? So ignore the deceit? The problem is that you are just looking at the surface. Ideally I would agree with you, but not when you consider the facts. No need to list them because the have been readily available, you just choose to turn a blind eye. I have no special interest and I can stay neutral when considering the facts. Based on the facts...the NCW is destroying the church on Guam.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:03 pm,
DeleteBased on what facts? You say that the NCW is destroying the Church on Guam. Where are the facts? You are listening to Tim Rohr and Chuck White, and these two have never heard the Catechesis of the Way. They have never attended nor the catechesis, so what facts are you referring to?
The post said to put aside FEELINGS! I wrote that post and I know what I meant. Obviously, facts of wrongdoing need to be corrected and situations mended as much as possible. However, facts are one thing, jumping to illogical conclusions based on one's feelings (of rage, scorn, etc) is another. Some people feel that what hurts them is the NCW. Perhaps they have been led to those feelings by others, whose possible motives I shall not discuss here.
ReplyDeleteNo prelate is ever popular with everyone. He has to make decisions which certain people will like, others won't. No prelate is ever perfect. He will make mistakes. (Whether the gravity of these mistakes warrant a resignation is for the lawful superiors to decide, and I don't want to discuss it, because it is beside the point.) Now it seems to me that some voices suggest that all unpopular and/or mistaken moves of the lawful ordinary of Guam are to be blamed on the NCW. This is a ridiculous brainwashing / scapegoat myth without any merit of logic.
To conclude, the post was to clarify facts about the seminary. The ordinary of Guam (be it Apuron or one of his successors) has the authority to close that seminary any time or to change its mode of operation (thereby, of course, loosing the influx of vocations from NCW communities). The off island guarantors are needed only for the vocations they send, which Guam undoubtedly needs. So to complain that the board of guarantors of a seminary that relies on the NCW for vocations and formation includes people of the NCW is quite ridiculous. What is not being discussed, at least not by the merit of the facts, although it should be the main question, whether Guam benefits from these priests: what are the factual positives and negatives about these priests and how Guam was or would be doing without them.
Dear Anonymous at 11:15 pm,
DeleteYou raised a good point. Does Guam benefit from these priests and what are the factual positives and negatives.
If we did not have these priests, we would be back to doing the same thing. We would be asking the Philippines or other countries for priests just as we had done in the past because our local people were not producing enough priests. Therefore, most of these priests would be coming from outside of Guam anyway, which is no different than many of the RMS we now have serving in our parishes.
To date, there has been 20 priests ordained on Guam. Fourteen of those priests received their formation at the Redemptoris Mater Seminary are presently working in the Archdiocese of Guam. As a result of the seminarians being visible and active in World Youth Day affairs, we are now seeing more local youths entering the priesthood due to some inspiration they received from these active seminarians.
We are not benefiting from these poorly ordained NCW priests.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 7:14 am,
DeleteYou need to explain your one sentence and use concrete facts. What you have here is only an opinion not supported by any facts.
Poorly ordained? Unless you can point to some deficiency in their ordination, you are despising the action of the Holy Spirit with this statement, thereby insulting all ordained clergy and the whole of Holy Mother Church. I love my mother the Church and won't stand by without reacting to such insult. Please repent also for your own sake.
DeleteAnonymousJanuary 10, 2015 at 7:14 AM
DeleteWe are not benefiting from these poorly ordained NCW priests.
What matters is for you my friend and brother in Christ to open your sights beyond the limitation of your eyes and intellect. You will witness the formation of 102 seminaries throughout the world; filled with people who willingly nail themselves to the cross for you and I.
Do you understand how a seminary is formed? I don't know myself but I believe the Vatican Curia has there own stringent criteria's. If you were to research and read a bit, you will understand that these seminaries were requested by numerous Cardinals and Bishops who saw the need in their countries.....their parishes to help the people who are suffering.
I believe that we also need ourselves to humbly ask God for the same help......to rebuild the church in our hearts. Ask and we shall receive.
I pray that he does not send you...as you quoted....a poorly ordained spirit.
These 'poorly ordained priests' are saying your masses, anointing your sick relatives, baptizing your families, counseling your brothers, helping people who are in need, saving people from hell and YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY AND IMMEASURABLE IGNORANCE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEM? When you are dying and begging for the sacraments, will you be as discriminating as you are today and tell the NCW priest that they are not wanted? Are you that ignorant? Your stupidity is amazing.
Delete1:14,
DeleteThey may be doing what you say, but that doesn't change the fact that they are poorly ordained. That's the problem with you NCW FANATICS, you never acknowledge the faults of the NCW.
Dear Anonymous at 11:15 am,
DeleteArchbishop Apuron was appointed by the Pope to be the Archbishop; therefore, it was a Pope-appointed Archbishop who ordained these men. So, how was their ordination flawed??? That is the problem with the opposition. They say their opinions without any factual support.
Diana, the facts are in in the parishes the RMS priest are assigned. I invite you to "Come Listen" and see for yourself!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:58 am,
DeleteI have been in the parishes of the RMS priests and I have listened. Have you been to our catechesis and listened?
Sorry DIANA, we can't understand your presbyters...they speak in foreign tongues.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:34 pm,
DeleteI understand them very well. Yes, isn't the Holy Spirit amazing?? I have found that many of these RMS priests can speak more than 5 different languages. They are just like the Apostles on Pentecost.
Acts 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
OMG, Diana! You claim the ELL (English Language Learning) RMS priests are like the Apostles and then, just like our Protestant brethren, quoted Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim" (NAB) but neglected to keep the quote in context.
DeleteIn the verses that follow (5-11) we read there were "devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem" (v 5) and "they were confused because each one heard them [the Apostles] speaking in his own language" (v 6) which means that people from different nations CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD what the Apostles were saying, unlike what we in the pews experience when RMS priests ramble on at the pulpit. We can hardly understand what they are saying!
Let's move on. The "devout Jews from EVERY NATION" recognized that the Apostles were "speaking Galileans" (v 7) and then asked "Then how does each of us hear them in his own native language?" (v 8) again showing that there was no hindrance to understanding what the Apostles were saying, which is very different from what happens when RMS priests stumble throughout their homilies. When asked why RMS priests don't have notes or prepared homilies, one presbyter said he lets "the spirit guide" him, which is clearly the case when there are long pauses between phrases (not even sentences) which makes it hard to follow the train of thought.
In verses 9 and 10 we can read a list of the places these Jews are from and in verse 11 we read once again speaking of the Apostles "yet we hear them speaking in our own tongues of the mighty acts of God" which (again) informs us that the Apostles did speak in tongues and were understood by the Jews who heard them speak.
BTW: The RMS priests speak different languages but RMS priests DO NOT speak in "tongues" like the Apostles did on Pentecost Sunday.
Dear Anonymous at 9:35 am,
DeleteYou stated (capitalization is mine): The RMS priests speak different LANGUAGES but RMS priests DO NOT speak in "TONGUES" like the Apostles did on Pentecost Sunday.
For your information, the Greek word for "tongues" is "glossa." According to Strong's biblical translation, it can also mean "language." As a matter of fact, the New Jerusalem Bible (a Catholic Bible) uses the word "language" in Acts 2:4 instead of "tongues".
OK, Diana, so in your mind and according to Strong's Concordance and the Jerusalem Bible (which I know is a Catholic Bible and which I have) tongues=languages. I'll accept that.
DeleteBut you conveniently ignored most of my comment and focused only on the BTW which was at the tail end of my comment, an afterthought. Most of my comment addressed the verses after the one you cited (Acts 2:4). These verses (5-11) told us that the people who heard the Apostles speaking in different tongues/languages UNDERSTOOD what the Apostles said while the RMS priests can barely be understood by the non-Neos in the pews. Maybe you and others who walk are used to their accents and their manners of speaking because you've heard them so often. But, unlike the Apostles whose words were UNDERSTOOD by the Jews from DIFFERENT NATIONS, the vocalizations of most of the RMS priests are NOT understood.
Clearly although you think that the multilingual RMS priests are like the Apostles on Pentecost Sunday, I'm sorry to inform you once again that they are NOT like the Apostles because the Apostles COULD BE UNDERSTOOD while the RMS priests are hard to understand.
Dear Anonymous at 2:38 pm,
DeleteWhen you get rid of your prejudices, then you will be able to understand them. Those people in Jerusalem were not prejudice. The language that the Apostles spoke through the Holy Spirit was the language of love, which can be understood by people of all nations.
Yes, I have been to your catechesis and listened a long time ago at Our Lady of Lourdes. I knew that it was Way was not for me. This was before the RMS priests were ordained and assigned to the local parishes. Is the Way different now that the RMS priest are assigned to the parishes?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 11:12 pm,
DeleteGood. I am glad that you at least had the opportunity to listen to the catechesis and decided that it is not for you. The Way made some changes in 2008 when the Statutes were approved. At any rate, you have already decided that the Way is not for you. God bless you.
Well, the apostolic visitors left the island and it is time to celebrate the many gifts they brought to us and their work they achieved to strengthen our Catholic faith and our Catholic communities on Guam.
ReplyDeleteFirst or all they became acquainted with the riches of the plentiful fruits the NeoCatechumenal Way produced on this tiny island. They were truly and deeply impressed. There will be a greater influx of support for the New Evangelization and a calm even applause about the increasing growth and influence of the New Way, the NeoCatechumenal communities. The great victory for the Way will produce and unstoppable momentum extending to all parishes and benefiting the whole island.
Second, there will be a better understanding of the status and purpose of the Redemptoris Mater Seminary in Yona. This great gift of God for the Catholic population of Guam will continue serving the New Evangelization under the auspices of the Way. Our RMS priests, employing their excellent and high quality education on all areas of pastoral work and together with other committed clergy, will energize and revitalize the Catholic life in the whole Pacific region. Our victory is in complete unity with the gains and victories of the whole Church!
Next, the extreme fundamentalists who consider themselves like warriors fighting a misguided crusade were ultimately exposed as who they really are: a tiny fraction of the Catholic population, at most 300 people out of the 120 thousand! Jungle Watch was exposed as a meeting place and training ground for these fundamentalist warriors. Their intellectual lowliness could be seen by the whole island when they allied themselves with the liberal media, with certified scandal mongers and uninhibited liars, enemies of the Catholic faith in order to make accusations against the Church and its local leaders. Their complete failure and shameful defeat will wake up those who entertained illusions about Jungle watch. Now it is time for this little delusional cabal to withdraw from the mainstream Church, leave us alone, and shrink back into their obscure Pre-Vatican 2 liturgies. As they can't attract any new followers, they will slowly and inevitably die out.
Finally, Concerned Catholics exposed themselves as fools of the crusader with no detectable intellectual activity beyond parroting back the mantra of Jungle Watch. Masquerading themselves as representing Guam Catholics, they achieved nothing but ridicule by their 300 followers. They do not represent anybody beyond themselves. CCOG actually has achieved nothing among its objectives, in particular nothing in regards of their attack on the Archbishop and on the NeoCatechumenal Way. The foolishness of their conduct follows a script of anti-Church tactics. Therefore, their homework will be to read the Book of Proverbs with its harsh words for such fools. Lol!
In summary, the association of various anti-Church groups with covert action figures like Tim Rohr and John Toves has completely discredited all their efforts. Hey, would it not be much better to crusade FOR the Church rather than AGAINST it?! But do not be dismayed. We open our doors for new Catechism over and over, more than once a year. Look for a poster in a parish near you with the Way offering its services. Join and you won’t be disappointed. We can guarantee this by the Holy Spirit. All you need to do is to cease your opposition to God and allow the miracle in your heart to happen.
Dear Ernie,
DeleteYes, it was good that they came by and spoke with people from all walks of life. Now, we leave everything in God's hands. After all, this is His Church, and He knows what is best for His Church.
Tim Rohr is spewing venom on his blog again. He had a chance to repent, as he was told by the apostolic visitors. But he blew his last chance again. I am sorry to say but looks like this guy had completely sold his soul to the devil and the the devil is having full control on him. This is very sad, but it is the truth.
DeleteThe devil made Tim Rohr and his followers addicts, They are addicted to their own angry voice and to their overblown vitriolic emotions. That is why Tim just cannot stop even when the apostolic visitors directly asked him to stop spreading hatred inside the Mother Church. But he is ignoring the high ranking Catholic officials and their entourage. This is a trap the devil uses to operate on Tim and to direct his blog. These folks are ignoring authoritative, sound advice for their own peril.
The sad thing is that some faithful Catholics as the CCOG with Greg Perez and Dave Sablan allowed themselves to be dragged into this diabolic influence. They need to repent and return to the Mother Church as soon as possible.
When someone is allowing the devil to set foot in his heart and soul, he becomes and addict, a slave of the devil. This addiction will take his better part for sure, as wee see it in the Jungle group. The devil promptly takes the opportunity to enter this person and through this person to penetrate the Church. As long as this person belongs to the Church, he harbors the devil and allows the devil to set foot in the Church. It has inevitable impact. This is why exorcism is a very serious business and has to be performed by authorized persons only.
Now the question is, how long our Church will allow the devil to penetrate its ranks and operate from inside though this person? How long can his blog continue to poison the heart and soul of the faithful? How long until a skillfully applied exorcism can free us, the island's Catholic communities, from this diabolic influence?
Dear Ernie,
DeleteAs I said to one commenter, one cannot bring unity to a person who does not want unity. According to Tim Rohr, the delegation told him to help. Instead of lending help, he gave an ultimatum. According to Tim Rohr, his ultimatum is:
Here, let me outline a course of action:
•A public apology for how he treated both priests.
•A complete restoration of the two priests to their former positions.
•A private meeting with both priests to discuss the reasons for their reassignments.
•An Aviso stating their reassignments.
This is not a help, but an ultimatum. If the Archbishop follows this course of action, there will only be more ultimatums to come. And that will only make the Archbishop a puppet of Tim Rohr. Tim says that Giuseppe and Father Pius controls the Archbishop and that the Archbishop follows every word they says. But Tim shows no evidence of this. There are no recordings, documents, or anything showing that the Archbishop is a slave of Giuseppe and Father Pius.......other than Tim's word.
"I am sorry to say but looks like this guy had completely sold his soul to the devil and the the devil is having full control on him. This is very sad, but it is the truth."
DeleteDiana, how long are you going to allow Pius to say these completely unfounded and uncharitable words on your blog? He is an embarrassment to all good Catholics, neo or non neo alike.
Honestly, do you agree that Tim Rohr needs a "skilfully applied exorcism"? And Pius has the audacity to speak about "extremism"!!
hmm.... i think the guy, TR, has dug up all the chronological paperwork to backup his assertions
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:26 pm,
DeleteI find more speculation in the paperwork.
Dear Diana at 3.40. For the sake of the argument, just assume for a sec that in fact "the Archbishop is a slave of Giuseppe and Father Pius".
DeleteWhat would you expect to see if that were true? Perhaps you might see Gennarini visiting the island shortly before a couple of priests (who showed some resistance to the NCW) were "moved on"? Perhaps you might see the Archbishop assign a property to the NCW without due diligence - in secret actually? Maybe you might see irregular practises in the liturgy, that have no justification in writing (although the Church always puts liturgical permissions in writing)? Perhaps you would see the Archbishop defending these irregularities without any evidence or proof that they are acceptable, compromising his own authority as the chief liturgist of the Archdiocese? Perhaps you might see foreign NCW leaders with an inordinate level of authority and power over local Church affairs such as who is being trained, and what occurs in the seminary, and who is subsequently ordained?
We could go on, but I think that's enough to get the gist.
Dear Anonymous at 4:46 pm,
DeleteThe Archbishop has a mind of his own. He is capable of making decisions for himself. You do not get it do you? It was already published in the PDN that the Financial Council wrote a letter to the Archbishop about selling the property. He had been telling the truth all along.
there's oniy one god
Delete