An anonymous poster under one of my posts said that the jungle is calling Kiko Arguello "evil." His/her comment can be found here. First, they call the Archbishop "evil incarnate", and now they are calling Kiko Arguello (the Founder of the Neocatechumenal Way) "evil." What action has Kiko done that warrants such a harsh condemnation? Did he commit murder? Has he molested many children? Did he rape a helpless girl?
Kiko Arguello founded the Neocatechumenal Way. Was that supposed to be a crime? One of the most admirable things the Way has done was help families and youths. For the first time since I was in the Way, I see the youths participating in the Eucharist of the Way, whether it was through cantoring or admontions and readings. I see the youths spending their Saturday nights in a two hour Mass. I see the youths spend a Sunday every month in youth scrutacio studying the Holy Bible. I see families pray together and couples being open to life. So, what exactly has Kiko done that is "evil"??
The jungle is claiming that the Archbishop is only a puppet taking orders from Giuseppe Gennarini and Father Pius. So, where is the evidence? If Tim Rohr can obtain recordings of a closed meeting and homilies of priests, then where is the recording of Giuseppe Gennarini and Father Pius giving orders to the Archbishop and the Archbishop saying "Yes Sir!"???
By the way, I am still waiting for the confirmation flight of Father John. The Archbishop was accused of hiding Father John in the seminary, and they have not produced any evidence so far.
The Gospel is being fulfilled! "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Persecution is a sign of authenticity.
Everyone is bad. First it was the Archbishop whom they call Tony, then it was Father Pius whom they call Pius, then it was Giuseppe Gennarini and now Kiko Argüello. This reminded me of this Gospel verses…."You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, …”
SNAP is sending folks here to investigate the NCW seminary and complaints about the priests who have abused teens and made advances. Have fun with all the international press and attention. Look what the pope did to the bishop of Paraguay. Oh SNAP!
The Pope removed the Bishop of Paraguay because he promoted a priest accused of inappropriate sexual behavior. The Archbishop of Guam removed Father Paul for refusing to let go of a sexual offender and of Father John because his past allegation.
So far, all the jungle has been doing is throwing stones without evidence. I'm still waiting for the flight confirmation of Father John.
Let SNAP come.... They already did come to Guam once and they stayed at the Hilton. And they advertised for anyone to come forward. And.... nothing happened. They went back empty anded. Let them come back. We always welcome people. We are Chamorros.
The Pope removed the Bishop of Paraguay for many other reasons. The media is a business. They want to sell the news and so they find sensational and juicy stuff that sells more. But not necessarily the truth.
You first said the accusation was that the Archbishop was hiding Father John in the seminary. If he's NOT hiding in the seminary, wouldn't the burden of proof be on the Archbishop to prove that he indeed left the island?
Father John left on July 24th just as the PDN stated. It was the jungle who said that he did not leave on that date and was hiding in the Seminary. They claimed that Father John left on a later date. Since they made the accusation that he left on a later date and not on July 24th, then they have to prove it. I have been waiting for the flight confirmation, which they have not yet produced.
I do not mean to be offensive but is there a mental disorder when someone confuses reality with imagination?
Jungle Wilderness constantly does that. Melanie started a conversation with Tim Rohr and he was adamant that she was the Archbishop himself. Another time he published on his blog that Father Adrian was writing to him as anonymous. Recently it was a seminarian who is sending comments on Jungle Watch. Pure fantasy.
Now that he is losing the battle to oust the Archbishop, he says he never wanted that!!! Now he is after Kiko himself. This man sees big! Unfortunately for Tim, Kiko is not an Internet fan and so the chances that he reads Tim’s rants are nil. Tim is a loser. And he knows it.
Since after nearly two months, Tim and Chuck have only garnered 351 signatures in the Petition of Concern regarding Father Pius, (he is a bad guy, we need to send him away from Guam) now they are saying that his Carmelite Order does not want him. Laughing Out Loud (LOL). (By the way, among the signatories there are Father Michael C. Crisostomo, Reverend Mr. Stephen Martinez, Rev. Paul Gofigan, Isaias Ginson…).
I was also accused of being a priest. That is why I no longer post in the jungle. They have accused me of being Father Adrian and Father Edivaldo. They have also accused me of being Jackie Terlaje, Pat Cottman, and Holly.
PETITION OF CONCERN REGARDING THE ACTIONS, WORDS, AND INFLUENCE OF FR. PIUS SAMMUT O.C.D. I noticed that among the signatures on there is also a certain Joseph Lastimoza, from Yigo. Is he the person I think he is?! Few words suffice for those who want to understand.
You say : "Wow, close scrutiny of names on the list". I ask : "anything wrong with that?" And very very very odd fact : Both Joseph Lastimoza and Father Paul Gofigan put their signature on the same day : August 07!
You say : "Unless you are Father Pius, how do you know his standing in the Order to which he belongs? You don't . And that is for certain." How do you know? And for certain? How do you know? The usual fallacy - whatever Tim says is the truth. Whatever the others says is falsehood.... I pity you, guys
So where is Tim's proof that the Archbishop is being controlled by Father Pius? Does he have a recording of Father Pius telling the Archbishop what to do and the Archbishop saying "Yes sir" to Father Pius?
I was greatly disturbed when a CCD teacher in one of the northern parishes in the island told me that she had to ask the deacon who was giving classes to stop bad mouthing Archbishop in front of the confirmation students because this undermines their faith.
Well, can counter that Deacon with the words of priest at Sunday Mass saying Archbishop answers only to the Pope. ThePeople have nothing to say. Oh, dear.
The English translation is "your servant" and God always comes first before anyone else. Christ even said that if you love mother, father, son, or daughter more than me, then you are not worthy of me. So, a priest must always be a servant of God first.
Diabolical is just another synonym for evil. But that still does not explain why Kiko is evil? Did he murder a million people? Did he molest many innocent children? Where is your evidence? The only thing your statement proves is the kind of person you are.
Yesterday was the feast day of the Filipino Saint Lawrence Ruiz and his Companions, who were martyred in Japan. It is enlightening to read the official reason whey Christians were persecuted : "The followers of Christ, arriving unexpectedly in Japan, not only came here carrying their goods, but also, without any permission, have spread and propagated their wicked law, destroying the good and legitimate one and plotting to overthrow authority in the country. This is the beginning of great calamity, which we should avoid by all means. Japan is a Shintoist and Buddhist country, which venerates the gods, honours Buddha, and respects the 'way of benevolence' (Confucius). The followers of the Fathers (the Christians) have all disobeyed the orders already given by the government despising religion ... and destroying the good. They are overjoyed when they see those about to be executed; they run after them wherever they go and adore them ... Such is the supreme ideal of this religion. Unless it is suppressed immediately, endless misfortunes will fall on the State. In all the regions of Japan, all these Christians should be eliminated without any delay ... If anyone dares contravene this order, he will be put to death ...... (Extracts of the 1614 Edict).
From last year's Beginning of the Year Convivience, there are more than 30 communities on Guam. At the Convivience, there were approximately 300 people, and those were only the Responsibles and Co-Responsibles. The NCW on Guam consist of about 1200 members.
But eventually as more priests graduate out of the neo seminary, each community will have one. That means each community will then have their own separate mass. Do you see the problem with this?
I do not see a problem with that. There are Masses going on in every Catholic Church all the time and in different times. Dededo Church also has more Masses due to its population.
So if the church can no longer accommodate the many communities (if they're to each have their own mass), will the neos eventually have to have their celebrations elsewhere? At people's homes maybe? It appears that this is leading to the destruction of the main church.
The purpose of the Way is to bring people back to the Church. Also, not everyone is going to join the Way. During Lent, for example, the communities are told to attend the parish celebrations in Holy Thursday and Good Friday before going to their celebrations.
Diane, you wanted evidence of the "evilness" of the Neocatechumenal Way here on Guam. That is exactly what Mr. Rohr (via his blog) is producing, yet everyone on this blog is still in denial and resorting to name calling (i.e., anonymous blogger above asking if jungle watch bloggers are mentally ill). Some of the evidence that will come out is the psychological manipulating of the vulnerable in the communities. I was a witness to this mental conditioning during a few retreats. One of the main reasons I left the community was that how could the faith be manifested in the Neo way when instead of taking care of the weak and poor, they (catechists) were berating, belittling and humiliating the weak and poor instead of raising their brother/sister up. Mother Teresa...yes; Neo-catechumens...no. God bless us all as more people wake up and with great humility admit that the Neo's is truly NOT the way to Christ.
The jungle has not produced any evidence of "evil" in the Way. Where are murdered victims? Where are the children whom Kiko has molested?? Where are the psychological manipulatings that you say you have witnessed? Are these people in a mental institution getting help, for example.
If you felt that these are abuses that the catechists are doing, did you bring them up to the catechists and spoke to them about it?? What I have witnessed during my first scrutiny was a brother yelling at the catechist. Why? Because the brother took offense that the catechist was correcting his teenage child. The kid was laughing and not taking the rite seriously, and the brother took the correction as an attack on his teenage child when it was not meant to be an attack, but a correction.
Personally, it should be the parent correcting the teenager rather than making excuses for the teenager's behavior. But apparently he did not see anything wrong with the behavior (while others do); therefore, someone has to correct the kid. And that someone turned out to be the catechist.
On the other hand, I am sure that it is possible that some catechists may possibly offended some brothers. After all, they are also human and like everyone else they can get angry at some members of the community.
YOU SAY :"'God bless us all as more people wake up and with great humility admit that the Neo's is truly not the way to Christ. " 5 Popes say just the opposite and have praised the Neocatechumenal Way and said that IT IS A WAY TO CHRIST. Perhaps they are in denial also. .. :)
“I acknowledge the Neocatechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times.” SAINT POPE JOHN PAUL II
Actually, the poor brothers/sisters being yelled at were quiet and crying softly so that they didn't offend the catechists further. They did not yell or fight back or instigate it. It was heart wrenching and when I and a few others brought it up to the catechists WE were yelled at and admonished that we ought not to defend the brothers/sisters, even though the yelling was unwarranted and unprovoked. But as you indicated above, being human ought to give them a free pass. That kind of thinking is exactly why I left.
What I have seen from my catechists is mercy and compassion. Through them, Jesus Christ saved me from a living hell. They have and still are losing their life for me and my brothers and sisters in community. They spent hours and hours helping us. They never asked for any favors. They always gave and gave and gave… their time, their resources, their energy, their health. They have been a clear sign of Jesus Christ. “Give, but give until it hurts”, said Mother Teresa. And this is what my catechists did with us.
I never said that being human gives them a free pass. The fact that they are human means that they also have a tendency to sin just like all of us. Okay.....so you left because of that experience. I can assure you that you will not only find people in the Way who are difficult to get along with. The same is true even in your job site and family. You will always encounter people who are difficult to get along with in all walks of life. The Way helps us learn how to deal with people like that because that is part of being human.
Thank you for that. At my job site and in my family, and everywhere else for that matter, I have never encountered people who were difficult to get along with; only in the community.
Really? I find that difficult to believe. Even in my own family, I have a few relatives who constantly borrow money from us and never paid us back even when they said they would. I also have a relative whom I loan some tools, and I do not get it returned until I "borrow" it back. Imagine that! I have to "borrow" my things back in order to get it returned. Surely, you are not going to tell me that you have never argued with your spouse?
In my job site, I have a colleague who comes late to work most of the time, and I have to cover for her. I find it difficult to believe that absolutely no problems exist in your family or worksite. If you have no problems with your family (or even at your worksite) that is NOT normal.
It's called having the grace to not judge. You really ought to try it. Wait a minute; isn't that the ultimate goal of the WAY? Not to judge but accept everyone as they are with love? Go back three steps Diana.
That's the beauty of humility; we know we aren't saints and welcome your sarcasm with love and prayers. Your slip is showing diana, please retract your claws. Love u.
Why come only to this blog and tell us to be humble? Why not also go to the jungle and do the same? It would be hypocrisy to only tell one side to be humble when Christ calls upon all Christians to be humble. Please retract your hypocrisy.
The only ones who knows where the money goes are those walking in the Neocatechumenal Way. And it is announced to the members. Those outside the Way should not even be asking about it because it is not your money. They did not put in anything. So, why concern yourself over something you never contributed to?
In the same way, Catholics can ask the Archdiocese about the money because the Catholics put in their money into it. The financial report of the Archdiocese was printed in the Umatuna, the Catholic newspaper that goes out to all Catholic Churches. The Archdiocese does not need to have the financial report publicized in the Pacific Daily News because not everyone in the public is Catholic and do not attend Catholic Churches.
When I was in it, it wasn't announced and it was my money. As for publishing the financial report in the PDN, the Archdiocese is a Not for Profit organization and by law MUST publish their reports. Google it.
My Responsible always announce how much was collected. Either your Responsible forgot to announce it to the brothers or he did announced it and you were not listening.
It doe not matter whether you are Catholic or non catholic....the law is the law. All non profit organazations especially non profit corporations MUST.....MUST submit a report to Rev an tax under the Gross and Receipt Dept and then publish their financial statement in the GUAM PAPER whether it be PDN or Marianas Variety. The law is the law.....check with Rev and Tax!
According to Guam’s law, § 14101. Purpose of Chapter. The Legislature finding that the people of Guam are generous contributors to charitable or other nonprofit organizations but are usually unaware of the disposition made of their contributions, the purpose of this Chapter is to require all such organizations, EXCEPT STRICTLY RELIGIOUS ONES, to file and publish annual financial statements so that the people of Guam can be made aware of the actual fiscal needs of these organizations and can thus govern themselves in their donations to such organizations accordingly
Okay Diana, let us see what mr Guiterrez at Rev and Tax says. NCW is a NON PROFIT CORPORATION and not a non profit organization. Two different titles....will get back to you,
There is no revenue for the NCW. The NCW does not exist as a corporate entity. It only exists as a set of spiritual goods to be administered by the bishop. I repeat the NCW does not have income! I do not understand what money they are talking about.
The reason why it is incomprehensible for NCW critics to accept that there is no money in the NCW except what private individuals donate to specific causes like the church or the seminary is because they themselves spend their lives counting pennies. Not because they are poor but because that is what they worry about all day. They see family members send their children to pilgrimages and are envious. How can they afford to send 3 kids to brazil? Providence. How can they spend weekends in hotels? Providence. How can they have 10 children? Providence. How can a seminary exist without stable income? Providence. The freedom to use money for what the world thinks is folly is one of the great beauties I have received from the way. Money does not dictate what I do. It should not dictate what anybody does.
People do not believe that God provides and so it is impossible for them to believe all the mentioned above. I have heard priest say that lady providence is dead so stop spinning that lie. Well with an attitude like that of course they think badly. You really cannot judge them for their lack of faith. Pray that they may have an experience of providence in their own life. The goal of a Christian is not to achieve the middle class, it is to get to heaven.
The RMS is a non profit corporation. All tickets sold under the RMS should be registered at Rev and Tax for your fund raisers. First and last number to be registered. All donations should be registered and receipts given. Books should be up to date. You must file with Rev and Tax Gross receipt department. Corporation is a corporation! Whoops going in tomorrow to check out the rules and regulations Whoohoo! BTW The RMS should file at the ending of their fiscal year, which is the day they became a corporation.
Tell that to the thousands of families and individuals the NCW has destroyed. Many families broken, individuals receiving psy therapy from the damage the NCW has caused over the years.
No one is in psy. therapy because of the NCW. That is simply another false rumor going around from anti-Neo websites. There is a lot of false rumors from those websites. There is even a rumor from those websites saying that we do not believe that the bread and wine turns into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
5:54 PM yesterday, so where doe your Moeny go when you do collections at celebrations and at the hotel functions....there has to be a bank account where your money goes too. What? No money? HMMMM......who are you fooling.....
All the jungle has proven is what Jesus says about being persecuted and hated in His name. Kiko teaches the love of Christ. He loves the Church. He is being hated for it.
No matter what is being said in the jungle, Kiko will STILL SPEAK OF CHRIST!
Wow.....labeling people as haters when all they are doing is bring up valid points or question wrong doing. I'll pray for you all. Too far in the deep end. Pride is keeping you there because you won't admit you were wrong and were fooled. Good luck with that. V/r, Tom Cruz
Anonymous September 29, 2014 at 10:37 AM: Anonymous September 29, 2014 at 11:33 AM
The people who write about Kiko being evil don't have a clue. Respectfully, not to minimize your intellect or knowledge of the book; scriptures tells us to judge the tree...does it bear good fruit or does it bear bad fruit? If we compare the fruits of Kiko...the Arch Bishop...the Neocatechumenal Way....what type of fruits do they produce? If you don't know...you don't know......asked God to help you find the truth. Now compare the fruits of the tim or chuck, voice of faith, thoughtful catholic. Who now will you believe?
Good to recall the prayer to Saint Michael, that Pope Leo XII directed us to say in 1886. Blessed Michael, Archangel, defend us in the hour of conflict; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God restrain him, we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust, down to hell, Satan, and with him the other wicked spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen
The Gospel is being fulfilled! "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Persecution is a sign of authenticity.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is bad. First it was the Archbishop whom they call Tony, then it was Father Pius whom they call Pius, then it was Giuseppe Gennarini and now Kiko Argüello. This reminded me of this Gospel verses…."You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, …”
ReplyDeleteAnd THEN......someone called Diana DI....that did it.
DeleteSNAP is sending folks here to investigate the NCW seminary and complaints about the priests who have abused teens and made advances. Have fun with all the international press and attention. Look what the pope did to the bishop of Paraguay. Oh SNAP!
ReplyDeleteThe Pope removed the Bishop of Paraguay because he promoted a priest accused of inappropriate sexual behavior. The Archbishop of Guam removed Father Paul for refusing to let go of a sexual offender and of Father John because his past allegation.
DeleteSo far, all the jungle has been doing is throwing stones without evidence. I'm still waiting for the flight confirmation of Father John.
Let SNAP come.... They already did come to Guam once and they stayed at the Hilton. And they advertised for anyone to come forward. And.... nothing happened. They went back empty anded. Let them come back. We always welcome people. We are Chamorros.
DeleteThe Pope removed the Bishop of Paraguay for many other reasons. The media is a business. They want to sell the news and so they find sensational and juicy stuff that sells more. But not necessarily the truth.
DeleteFather John may still be hiding in the seminary. Let us send the FBI to look for him. LOL
DeleteDiana is still waiting to produce the flight confirmation to prove that Father John left. With no evidence to show. that only means he's still here.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:36 pm,
DeleteThe jungle made the accusation that Father John left on a later date. So, I'm still waiting for them to prove this accusation to be true.
You first said the accusation was that the Archbishop was hiding Father John in the seminary. If he's NOT hiding in the seminary, wouldn't the burden of proof be on the Archbishop to prove that he indeed left the island?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:47 pm,
DeleteFather John left on July 24th just as the PDN stated. It was the jungle who said that he did not leave on that date and was hiding in the Seminary. They claimed that Father John left on a later date. Since they made the accusation that he left on a later date and not on July 24th, then they have to prove it. I have been waiting for the flight confirmation, which they have not yet produced.
I do not mean to be offensive but is there a mental disorder when someone confuses reality with imagination?
ReplyDeleteJungle Wilderness constantly does that. Melanie started a conversation with Tim Rohr and he was adamant that she was the Archbishop himself. Another time he published on his blog that Father Adrian was writing to him as anonymous. Recently it was a seminarian who is sending comments on Jungle Watch. Pure fantasy.
Now that he is losing the battle to oust the Archbishop, he says he never wanted that!!! Now he is after Kiko himself. This man sees big! Unfortunately for Tim, Kiko is not an Internet fan and so the chances that he reads Tim’s rants are nil. Tim is a loser. And he knows it.
Since after nearly two months, Tim and Chuck have only garnered 351 signatures in the Petition of Concern regarding Father Pius, (he is a bad guy, we need to send him away from Guam) now they are saying that his Carmelite Order does not want him. Laughing Out Loud (LOL). (By the way, among the signatories there are Father Michael C. Crisostomo, Reverend Mr. Stephen Martinez, Rev. Paul Gofigan, Isaias Ginson…).
More of this fantasy stories later
Dear Anonymous at 12:43 pm,
DeleteI was also accused of being a priest. That is why I no longer post in the jungle. They have accused me of being Father Adrian and Father Edivaldo. They have also accused me of being Jackie Terlaje, Pat Cottman, and Holly.
Let them guess! Hahaha!
DeletePETITION OF CONCERN REGARDING THE ACTIONS, WORDS, AND INFLUENCE OF FR. PIUS SAMMUT O.C.D. I noticed that among the signatures on there is also a certain Joseph Lastimoza, from Yigo. Is he the person I think he is?! Few words suffice for those who want to understand.
DeleteWow, close scrutiny of names on the list.
DeleteUnless you are Father Pius, how do you know his standing in the Order to which he belongs? You don't . And that is for certain.
DeleteYou say : "Wow, close scrutiny of names on the list". I ask : "anything wrong with that?" And very very very odd fact : Both Joseph Lastimoza and Father Paul Gofigan put their signature on the same day : August 07!
DeleteI do know the standing of Father Pius in his Order because I have friends :)
DeleteYou say : "Unless you are Father Pius, how do you know his standing in the Order to which he belongs? You don't . And that is for certain." How do you know? And for certain? How do you know? The usual fallacy - whatever Tim says is the truth. Whatever the others says is falsehood.... I pity you, guys
DeleteThey still call you fr.edivaldo and holly in the jungle I guess that their blaming them
DeleteI was saddened to see names of ordained ministers too
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:24 am.,
DeleteSo where is Tim's proof that the Archbishop is being controlled by Father Pius? Does he have a recording of Father Pius telling the Archbishop what to do and the Archbishop saying "Yes sir" to Father Pius?
I was greatly disturbed when a CCD teacher in one of the northern parishes in the island told me that she had to ask the deacon who was giving classes to stop bad mouthing Archbishop in front of the confirmation students because this undermines their faith.
ReplyDeleteWell, can counter that Deacon with the words of priest at Sunday Mass saying Archbishop answers only to the Pope. ThePeople have nothing to say. Oh, dear.
ReplyDeleteI thought Servus Tuus meant he's the servant of the people.....to serve his brothers and sisters.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:50 pm,
DeleteServus Tuus means "I am your servant, Lord". Tuus means "your."
Listen to the video again Diana. He chose the motto "Servus Tuus" when his mom told him as she was dying to serve his brothers and sisters.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:52 pm,
DeleteThe English translation is "your servant" and God always comes first before anyone else. Christ even said that if you love mother, father, son, or daughter more than me, then you are not worthy of me. So, a priest must always be a servant of God first.
i wouldn't say evil perhaps diabolical
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 5:29 pm,
DeleteDiabolical is just another synonym for evil. But that still does not explain why Kiko is evil? Did he murder a million people? Did he molest many innocent children? Where is your evidence? The only thing your statement proves is the kind of person you are.
Kiko is a nice guy...a little grubby, but nice.
DeleteDiabolical is a word that Tim Rohr uses all the time... This is his language.
DeleteYesterday was the feast day of the Filipino Saint Lawrence Ruiz and his Companions, who were martyred in Japan. It is enlightening to read the official reason whey Christians were persecuted : "The followers of Christ, arriving unexpectedly in Japan, not only came here carrying their goods, but also, without any permission, have spread and propagated their wicked law, destroying the good and legitimate one and plotting to overthrow authority in the country. This is the beginning of great calamity, which we should avoid by all means. Japan is a Shintoist and Buddhist country, which venerates the gods, honours Buddha, and respects the 'way of benevolence' (Confucius).
DeleteThe followers of the Fathers (the Christians) have all disobeyed the orders already given by the government despising religion ... and destroying the good. They are overjoyed when they see those about to be executed; they run after them wherever they go and adore them ... Such is the supreme ideal of this religion. Unless it is suppressed immediately, endless misfortunes will fall on the State. In all the regions of Japan, all these Christians should be eliminated without any delay ... If anyone dares contravene this order, he will be put to death ......
(Extracts of the 1614 Edict).
Sounds familiar?
Diabolical?!!! Do you know the guy? How can you utter such a judgement on him?
DeleteHi Diana -- How many NCW communities are there on Guam?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 10:19 pm,
DeleteFrom last year's Beginning of the Year Convivience, there are more than 30 communities on Guam. At the Convivience, there were approximately 300 people, and those were only the Responsibles and Co-Responsibles. The NCW on Guam consist of about 1200 members.
So each Saturday evening, are there 30 different masses being celebrated?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:55 pm,
DeleteNo. Some communities do not have a priest so they celebrate Mass with other communities.
But eventually as more priests graduate out of the neo seminary, each community will have one. That means each community will then have their own separate mass. Do you see the problem with this?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:32 pm,
DeleteI do not see a problem with that. There are Masses going on in every Catholic Church all the time and in different times. Dededo Church also has more Masses due to its population.
So if the church can no longer accommodate the many communities (if they're to each have their own mass), will the neos eventually have to have their celebrations elsewhere? At people's homes maybe? It appears that this is leading to the destruction of the main church.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 5:02 pm,
DeleteThe purpose of the Way is to bring people back to the Church. Also, not everyone is going to join the Way. During Lent, for example, the communities are told to attend the parish celebrations in Holy Thursday and Good Friday before going to their celebrations.
Diane, you wanted evidence of the "evilness" of the Neocatechumenal Way here on Guam. That is exactly what Mr. Rohr (via his blog) is producing, yet everyone on this blog is still in denial and resorting to name calling (i.e., anonymous blogger above asking if jungle watch bloggers are mentally ill). Some of the evidence that will come out is the psychological manipulating of the vulnerable in the communities. I was a witness to this mental conditioning during a few retreats. One of the main reasons I left the community was that how could the faith be manifested in the Neo way when instead of taking care of the weak and poor, they (catechists) were berating, belittling and humiliating the weak and poor instead of raising their brother/sister up. Mother Teresa...yes; Neo-catechumens...no. God bless us all as more people wake up and with great humility admit that the Neo's is truly NOT the way to Christ.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:50 am,
DeleteThe jungle has not produced any evidence of "evil" in the Way. Where are murdered victims? Where are the children whom Kiko has molested?? Where are the psychological manipulatings that you say you have witnessed? Are these people in a mental institution getting help, for example.
If you felt that these are abuses that the catechists are doing, did you bring them up to the catechists and spoke to them about it?? What I have witnessed during my first scrutiny was a brother yelling at the catechist. Why? Because the brother took offense that the catechist was correcting his teenage child. The kid was laughing and not taking the rite seriously, and the brother took the correction as an attack on his teenage child when it was not meant to be an attack, but a correction.
Personally, it should be the parent correcting the teenager rather than making excuses for the teenager's behavior. But apparently he did not see anything wrong with the behavior (while others do); therefore, someone has to correct the kid. And that someone turned out to be the catechist.
On the other hand, I am sure that it is possible that some catechists may possibly offended some brothers. After all, they are also human and like everyone else they can get angry at some members of the community.
YOU SAY :"'God bless us all as more people wake up and with great humility admit that the Neo's is truly not the way to Christ. " 5 Popes say just the opposite and have praised the Neocatechumenal Way and said that IT IS A WAY TO CHRIST. Perhaps they are in denial also. .. :)
Delete“I acknowledge the Neocatechumenal Way as an itinerary of Catholic formation, valid for our society and for our times.” SAINT POPE JOHN PAUL II
Actually, the poor brothers/sisters being yelled at were quiet and crying softly so that they didn't offend the catechists further. They did not yell or fight back or instigate it. It was heart wrenching and when I and a few others brought it up to the catechists WE were yelled at and admonished that we ought not to defend the brothers/sisters, even though the yelling was unwarranted and unprovoked. But as you indicated above, being human ought to give them a free pass. That kind of thinking is exactly why I left.
DeleteWhat I have seen from my catechists is mercy and compassion. Through them, Jesus Christ saved me from a living hell. They have and still are losing their life for me and my brothers and sisters in community. They spent hours and hours helping us. They never asked for any favors. They always gave and gave and gave… their time, their resources, their energy, their health. They have been a clear sign of Jesus Christ. “Give, but give until it hurts”, said Mother Teresa. And this is what my catechists did with us.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:45 am,
DeleteI never said that being human gives them a free pass. The fact that they are human means that they also have a tendency to sin just like all of us. Okay.....so you left because of that experience. I can assure you that you will not only find people in the Way who are difficult to get along with. The same is true even in your job site and family. You will always encounter people who are difficult to get along with in all walks of life. The Way helps us learn how to deal with people like that because that is part of being human.
Thank you for that. At my job site and in my family, and everywhere else for that matter, I have never encountered people who were difficult to get along with; only in the community.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:17 pm,
DeleteReally? I find that difficult to believe. Even in my own family, I have a few relatives who constantly borrow money from us and never paid us back even when they said they would. I also have a relative whom I loan some tools, and I do not get it returned until I "borrow" it back. Imagine that! I have to "borrow" my things back in order to get it returned. Surely, you are not going to tell me that you have never argued with your spouse?
In my job site, I have a colleague who comes late to work most of the time, and I have to cover for her. I find it difficult to believe that absolutely no problems exist in your family or worksite. If you have no problems with your family (or even at your worksite) that is NOT normal.
It's called having the grace to not judge. You really ought to try it. Wait a minute; isn't that the ultimate goal of the WAY? Not to judge but accept everyone as they are with love? Go back three steps Diana.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:26 am.
DeleteIf that is the case, then you should be declared a holy saint already.
That's the beauty of humility; we know we aren't saints and welcome your sarcasm with love and prayers. Your slip is showing diana, please retract your claws. Love u.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 4:05 pm,
DeleteWhy come only to this blog and tell us to be humble? Why not also go to the jungle and do the same? It would be hypocrisy to only tell one side to be humble when Christ calls upon all Christians to be humble. Please retract your hypocrisy.
Okay, if the NEO isn't evil, where is the transparency with the moneys collected....paper trail anyone? None? I thought so.
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 8:51 am,
DeleteThe only ones who knows where the money goes are those walking in the Neocatechumenal Way. And it is announced to the members. Those outside the Way should not even be asking about it because it is not your money. They did not put in anything. So, why concern yourself over something you never contributed to?
In the same way, Catholics can ask the Archdiocese about the money because the Catholics put in their money into it. The financial report of the Archdiocese was printed in the Umatuna, the Catholic newspaper that goes out to all Catholic Churches. The Archdiocese does not need to have the financial report publicized in the Pacific Daily News because not everyone in the public is Catholic and do not attend Catholic Churches.
When I was in it, it wasn't announced and it was my money. As for publishing the financial report in the PDN, the Archdiocese is a Not for Profit organization and by law MUST publish their reports. Google it.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:59 am.,
DeleteMy Responsible always announce how much was collected. Either your Responsible forgot to announce it to the brothers or he did announced it and you were not listening.
It doe not matter whether you are Catholic or non catholic....the law is the law. All non profit organazations especially non profit corporations MUST.....MUST submit a report to Rev an tax under the Gross and Receipt Dept and then publish their financial statement in the GUAM PAPER whether it be PDN or Marianas Variety. The law is the law.....check with Rev and Tax!
DeleteDear Anonymous at 1:55 pm,
DeleteThe following public law of Guam was taken from the following weblink (capitalization is my emphasis):
http://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/guam-corporation.html
According to Guam’s law, § 14101. Purpose of Chapter. The Legislature finding that the people of Guam are generous contributors to charitable or other nonprofit organizations but are usually unaware of the disposition made of their contributions, the purpose of this Chapter is to require all such organizations, EXCEPT STRICTLY RELIGIOUS ONES, to file and publish annual financial statements so that the people of Guam can be made aware of the actual fiscal needs of these organizations and can thus govern themselves in their donations to such organizations accordingly
Okay Diana, let us see what mr Guiterrez at Rev and Tax says. NCW is a NON PROFIT CORPORATION and not a non profit organization. Two different titles....will get back to you,
DeleteThere is no revenue for the NCW. The NCW does not exist as a corporate entity. It only exists as a set of spiritual goods to be administered by the bishop. I repeat the NCW does not have income! I do not understand what money they are talking about.
DeleteThe reason why it is incomprehensible for NCW critics to accept that there is no money in the NCW except what private individuals donate to specific causes like the church or the seminary is because they themselves spend their lives counting pennies. Not because they are poor but because that is what they worry about all day. They see family members send their children to pilgrimages and are envious. How can they afford to send 3 kids to brazil? Providence. How can they spend weekends in hotels? Providence. How can they have 10 children? Providence. How can a seminary exist without stable income? Providence. The freedom to use money for what the world thinks is folly is one of the great beauties I have received from the way. Money does not dictate what I do. It should not dictate what anybody does.
People do not believe that God provides and so it is impossible for them to believe all the mentioned above. I have heard priest say that lady providence is dead so stop spinning that lie. Well with an attitude like that of course they think badly. You really cannot judge them for their lack of faith. Pray that they may have an experience of providence in their own life. The goal of a Christian is not to achieve the middle class, it is to get to heaven.
The RMS is a non profit corporation. All tickets sold under the RMS should be registered at Rev and Tax for your fund raisers. First and last number to be registered. All donations should be registered and receipts given. Books should be up to date. You must file with Rev and Tax Gross receipt department. Corporation is a corporation! Whoops going in tomorrow to check out the rules and regulations Whoohoo! BTW The RMS should file at the ending of their fiscal year, which is the day they became a corporation.
DeleteTell that to the thousands of families and individuals the NCW has destroyed. Many families broken, individuals receiving psy therapy from the damage the NCW has caused over the years.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 2:23 am.,
DeleteNo one is in psy. therapy because of the NCW. That is simply another false rumor going around from anti-Neo websites. There is a lot of false rumors from those websites. There is even a rumor from those websites saying that we do not believe that the bread and wine turns into the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.
5:54 PM yesterday, so where doe your Moeny go when you do collections at celebrations and at the hotel functions....there has to be a bank account where your money goes too. What? No money? HMMMM......who are you fooling.....
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:53 pm,
DeleteAll the monies collected are donations and goes to pay the hotel bills where we hold our conviviences or retreats.
And may I ask why at a hotel?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:06 pm.,
DeleteBecause the hotel is the only place that can hold about 300-500 people and accommodate us with beds, showers, and meals for four days.
Diana,
ReplyDeleteAll the jungle has proven is what Jesus says about being persecuted and hated in His name. Kiko teaches the love of Christ. He loves the Church. He is being hated for it.
No matter what is being said in the jungle, Kiko will STILL SPEAK OF CHRIST!
They're just haters.
Wow.....labeling people as haters when all they are doing is bring up valid points or question wrong doing. I'll pray for you all. Too far in the deep end. Pride is keeping you there because you won't admit you were wrong and were fooled. Good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteV/r,
Tom Cruz
well he sure ain't holy!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous September 29, 2014 at 10:37 AM: Anonymous September 29, 2014 at 11:33 AM
ReplyDeleteThe people who write about Kiko being evil don't have a clue. Respectfully, not to minimize your intellect or knowledge of the book; scriptures tells us to judge the tree...does it bear good fruit or does it bear bad fruit? If we compare the fruits of Kiko...the Arch Bishop...the Neocatechumenal Way....what type of fruits do they produce? If you don't know...you don't know......asked God to help you find the truth. Now compare the fruits of the tim or chuck, voice of faith, thoughtful catholic. Who now will you believe?
Good to recall the prayer to Saint Michael, that Pope Leo XII directed us to say in 1886.
ReplyDeleteBlessed Michael, Archangel, defend us in the hour of conflict; be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God restrain him, we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust, down to hell, Satan, and with him the other wicked spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls.
Amen
Anonymous September 30, 2014 at 6:10 AM
ReplyDeletebetter to pray then recall.....even better yet to listen to his response.