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Monday, August 25, 2014
Conscience And Virtue
THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (50pts) ~ Pt.29: Conscience & Virtue
http://youtu.be/l8hdkvxEeOQ
To ensure that we are not following our malformed conscience, we rely on the truth of Church teaching. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
CCC 1269 Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us. From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to "obey and submit" to the Church's leaders, holding them in respect and affection. Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.
Exactly!
ReplyDeleteOkay, so we're to follow whatever the archbishop tells us to do. In this case, he wants us to follow kikoman, but we want to follow Jesus Christ instead. Still obey?
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 1:38 p.m.,
DeleteKiko also follows Jesus Christ.
Archbishop never said follow Kiko but what the Church teaches. If you never in community in the Way, stop speculating.
DeleteDiana -- I respect your opinion that YOU believe kiko follows Jesus Christ, however, I ( as well as many, many others) do not believe in kiko and don't need "his way" in order to follow Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church does not mandate all Catholics to join the NCW, therefore, we are not being disobedient if we don't want to join. I don't see why the archbishop, and you for that matter, don't understand this.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:38 pm,
DeleteWhere in my post or comments did I say that you MUST join the Way. The laity does not have to join if they do not want to. The priest, on the other hand, are a different story because they took an oath of obedience to the Archbishop. So, when the Archbishop asks a priest to open up his parish for the NCW, then out of obedience to their Archbishop, they should obey. By opening up the Way in their parish, it allows those in the laity to participate if they want.
Anon.3:36 As emphasize, the NCW is force upon anyone. As Contract Priest under Archbishop Apuron your under oath to obey!
DeleteAll I can say DI is that those of us who don't believe in your kiko will definitely not obey and submit to the archbishop in this regard and I'm pretty sure Rome will back us up. The priests who oppose "the way" do so because THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TEACHINGS OF KIKO, therefore, the arch shouldn't be forcing them to follow and you should quit insisting that they follow the his orders. If any member of the laity wants to join the NCW, I'm sure they will find a church which has one already established. Not every parish should be mandated to open one and KUDOS to St. Francis Church in Yona for taking a stance against it!
DeleteTo Anonymous @ 2:47: You say "Archbishop never said to follow kiko but what the Church teaches". Can you tell me why then that the neo's mass, oops I mean celebration, is different than the Church's? Why do they not call it a mass like the rest of the Church? Why do they not kneel AT ALL like the rest of the Church? Why do they sit when they consume the Body of Christ? Is this the teaching of the Church? And please don't go giving that same old tired line about it being approved by the Pope. If the NCW is supposed to follow the Church's teachings, can you tell me why they even wanted to change certain things of the mass in the first place? Hope you or Princess Di have an answer to this. Will be waiting.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:37 pm,
DeleteThe words "Eucharist" and " Mass" are both used by the Catholic Church. One of the seven sacraments is the Sacrament of the Eucharist. So, what is the big deal if one says Eucharist or Mass when the Catholic Church uses both terms?
Actually, not all the Catholic Church kneel. As I constantly point out, the Eastern Catholics do not kneel. The Eastern Catholics are in communion with the Pope, so yes that is Church teaching. We already received the approval from the Vatican. If you do not believe me, simply fly to Rome and schedule a meeting with the Pope.
Dear Anonymous at 6:32 pm,
DeleteAll I can say about those parishioners is that they are prejudice in that they discriminate against all priests because they only want a Capuchian priest. The beauty about the Catholic Church is that we have Jesuit priests, Dominican priests, Franciscan priests, Opus Dei priests, and even RMS priests, and those parishioners only want Capuchian priests??? Such blatant discrimination. It almost sounds like America in the 1940s where they had "Whites Only" signs in restaurants, movies, and restrooms. Now, we have a "Capuchian Only" sign in the Yona Church. It is very discriminatory.
It sounds like you want a Neo take over Diana....better learn your history lesson...
DeleteDear anon 7:37 p.m. whatever is your list of complaints against us, it is your list and not ours. These are your problems and not ours. These make you uneasy about us, but we are just fine, we are not uneasy about your list of complaints at all. Why? Because our concern is different from yours. You worry about some letters of some regulations that nobody else is worrying about, especially not the Popes. But our concern is the Lord Jesus. You see, we want to walk towards Him and with Him. This is our concern. Because He is the center of our lives. Could you make Him the center of your life, as well? Just try it and pray and it could happen. Then you'll forget letters in regulations and just be happy about the presence of the Lord Jesus in you own life. If you are truly a Christian then you understand what I am saying. Please, pray for me.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 3:10 a.m.,
DeleteI think you forgot your history. The Catholic Church stood for over 2000 years, and you think that we are going to take over? There are only 1200 members of the Way in Guam. Why are you so frighten of 1200 people?
We are not frightened! We will no longer sit and be taken over by the likes of you people! Send the seminarians home to their mother land where there is more trouble to evangelized. It's called clean your house before you clean mine!
Delete7:34 Because the Local Ordinary is exerting his influence as a participating member of the NCW. All the Diaconate candidates heard him wrong when the Way was forced on them, to be a deacon you have to be in the NCW? They all heard him wrong and it was only a suggestion?
DeleteThere is no such thing as Kiko teachings or Kiko-catechism. Everything that Kiko has preached has been approved by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. In particular, the tidbits that Mr. Rohr likes to quote come from the first book approved. This book was approved by Cardinal Raztinger himself when he was Prefect of the Congregation, and everything in it is referenced with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. What Kiko says IS Catholic.
DeleteThe Neocatechumenal Way is a tool for evangelization, and the Archbishop is using this tool. Maybe some do not like HIS style. but then that's a personal problem not a doctrinal one. As many have already said, the NCW is not for everyone! not everyone is comfortable with the style of Opus Dei but it IS Catholic: not everyone is comfortable with the style of the NCW, but the difference in style does not prevent collaboration and friendship between the two. The problem is not the style in which we live our Faith, it is the spirit. Oratorian priests and the Jesuits are externally completely different, yet St. Philip Neri and St. Ignatius Loyola were great friends because they had the same spirit. Don Giussani and Kiko had a great relationship, yet Communion and Liberation and the NCW are completely different. It speaks to the real catholicity of the Church that it allows for such variety.
If you do not like the NCW style, what is preventing you from collaboration and friendship like so many others in the world?
Dear Anonymous at 8:36 am,
DeleteThose who are in the Way chose to be here. They were not forced to be here. As anyone can see, those who wish our seminarians gone and the NCW had always been the ones causing the separation and division. One does not hear these kinds of sentiments from us. We did not reject our brothers who attend the regular Mass. It was you and others like you who rejected us.
Anon 9;20AM nice insight. Perhaps Diana you can post his or her comment in the main. Hope to read of your humble view.
Delete"we rely on the truth of Church teaching"
ReplyDeleteCan someone please discuss the teaching of the NCW in relation to Cephas/Caiaphas? Thanks
Dear Anonymous at 5:25 p.m.,
DeleteCephas and Caiaphas are two different men and have no relation with each other. Cephas is the Apostle Peter. That is his name in Aramaic, which means "Rock."
Caiaphas, on the other hand, is the Jewish high priest who plotted to kill Jesus.
There you go Diana,
DeletePeter is the rock of the Church and Kiko is Caiaphas.
Dear Anonymous at 10:04 a.m.,
DeleteThe Catholic Church teaches that we are all Caiaphas. It was our sins that put Christ on the cross and killed Him. Kiko is not the only one who is Caiaphas. YOU are also Caiaphas.
Diocesan clergy and members of religious orders must obey their lawful superiors, even if the superior is mistaken, unless what he orders is sinful.
ReplyDeleteWhat is happening in Guam is a clergy riot and it makes non-Catholics, non-Christians and especially the devil laugh at us. There are a few men who simply can't swallow their pride... it has grown so big that it can't pass their throat any more: a very dangerous state to be.
Get off your high horse....you people just want control....we don't believe, we don't follow. Get it through your thick heads...sooner or later this will result in a huge revolt!!!!!!! You can thank the AAA for this.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 7:38 am,
DeleteYou do not need to join the Way if you do not want. But why revolt against us when we have not revolted against you? .
You won't revolt against us because you need our resources dear Diana.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 9:58 p.m.,
DeleteGod has always been our resource. It was not you who gave us a seminary. It was not you who sent our mission families and itinerants to other countries. You can keep your money. We have been able to accomplish so much without your money and resource.
Of course that would be so easy for you to SAY keep our money, Diana. How about putting that into action and start paying the church for using her facilities and stop mooching off the rest of us Catholics who have to pay.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:53 a.m.,
DeleteAs I have been saying all along, we have been putting the money into the parish. You can see that in the parish bulletin, now that every parish is publishing where the money is coming from in their bulletin.
Your statement about kikoman clearly shows your adolescence when you speak about a man that you know nothing about. You cannot speak about following Jesus Christ and belittle a mans character in the same sentence.
ReplyDeleteKnow nothing about? How about someone who is trying to destroy the Catholic Church?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:09 a.m.,
DeleteHow is he destroying the Catholic Church? Kiko is a Consulter in the Pontifical Council.
Anon 6:09,
DeleteHow is Kiko destroying the Catholic Church? Please, enlighten me.
You all can't even answer the MAIN question! Why did Kiko feel he needed to change the way the mass is said? Still waiting......
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 6:06 a.m.,
DeleteWho said that Kiko changed the Mass? The NCW liturgy has already been approved by the Vatican, and that is what we have to follow.
Dear Anon 6:06 a.m. what you say is exactly what bookworm Catholics say: if your reading of the regulations of the mass is different from our reading, then we must be at fault... You wave with the book in your hands and try to crush us. But you see, we are not at fault. The Neocatechumenal Way became a mainstream Catholic way of living out our faith among our sisters and brothers. For us faith is NOT waving and yelling with regulatory books in the hand. This is something lawyers might do. Or bookwork Catholics. We prefer the Lord Jesus over any printed books. He is alive among us, he is our arms and shield. Would it not be much nicer for you also to express your faith through the depth of your relation to Jesus Christ?!
DeleteSays who? The Pope or Kiko? Then go start your own church, stop trying to take over ours.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:02 a.m.,
DeleteThe Pope. There is a difference between KNOWING Christ and KNOWING ABOUT Christ. Those who wave the book at us know a lot about Christ, but do not know Him.
Dear Anon 6:06,
ReplyDeleteWho said Kiko changed the Mass?
Answer me this...(Since you anti-neos are always talking about a divsion)
WHERE were the "non-neo" priests when the people in the Way were suffering from whatever crisis they faced in their lives? Let me guess, it was up to them to go to the Church and find Christ right?
You "Anti-Neos" are so hooked on trying to find ways to present that we're doing is against the teachings of the Church and fail to realize that these "neos" WERE NOT IN THE CHURCH TO BEGIN WITH!!!! The Archbishop and the "neo priests" GOT OUT OF THEIR LITTLE COMFORT ZONES to go and evangelize. Where were the other parish preists? WHERE WERE THEY?! It is a miracle that these Neos are even proclaiming Jesus Christ and THE CATHOLIC FAITH! They could have easily been found by members of a protestant church. But NO, by the GRACE OF GOD, they stayed in the Catholic Church. So who the hell do you people think you are to try and take that joy away from us?!
WE DO NOT WORSHIP KIKO! WE WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST!!! AGAIN, WE WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST! AND SINCE YOU "NEO-HATERS" CANT HEAR IT, I'LL GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND SAY IT ONE MORE TIME.
THE "NEOS" WORSHIP JESUS CHRIST!
so get over it.
Why even bother with this guy kiko, it sounds like you're all idolizing over him...
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous at 2:51 p.m.,
DeleteWe do not idolize Kiko. We recognize him as the founder of the Neocatechumenal Way and therefore deserve some respect. But we do not worship him.
Anon 9:39AM it's time to publicly tell the people of Guam the marvel that you received from God thru the WAY, Archbishop and the priest. These PERSECUTION is good for our conversion. Do not worry Vatican (Pope) will ease there question.
DeleteThe Initiator!!
DeleteIdolize a man? Jesus Christ...YES.
ReplyDelete