I found an interesting article on the Internet. Pope Francis says that half-hearted Catholics are not really Catholics at all because they only have one foot inside the Catholic Church. Pope Francis described three kinds of half-hearted Catholics: 1) uniformists, 2) alternativists, and 3) businessists. According to the article (weblink is provided below): The first group, he said, believe that everyone in the church should be just like them. "They are rigid! They do not have that freedom the Holy Spirit gives," and they confuse what Jesus preached with their "own doctrine of uniformity."
"Jesus never wanted the church to be so rigid," Pope Francis said. Such people "call themselves Catholics, but their rigid attitude distances them from the church."
The second group, those with alternative teachings and doctrines, "has a partial belonging to the church. These, too, have one foot outside the church," he said. "They rent the church," not recognizing that its teaching is based on the preaching of Jesus and the apostolic tradition.
Members of the third group "call themselves Christians but don't enter into the heart of the church," they use the church "for personal profit," the pope said. "We have all seen them in parish or diocesan communities and religious congregations; they are some of the benefactors of the church."
"They strut around proud of being benefactors, but in the end, under the table, make their deals," he said.
Pope Francis said the church is made up of people with a variety of differences and gifts, and if one wants to belong to it, he or she must be motivated by love and enter with "your whole heart."
Being open to the Spirit, who fosters harmony in diversity, he said, brings "docility," which is "the virtue that saves us" from entering the church half-heartedly.
Half-Hearted Catholics
Half-hearted Catholics are unable to see, understand and do what is good for the Church. Uniformists hate Vatican II and the New Spirit that came about it. They hate communities as a framework of living out your Catholic faith among your sisters and brothers. They are complacent with repeating mechanical procedures without heart and soul, without ever opening new doors, without ever being joyful while discovering the Lord's face of encouragement, love and compassion.
ReplyDeleteWhen we read the incoherent rants of half-hearted Catholics attacking the Way, we should understand their depravity caused by their inability to see the true face of Jesus. Led by anger and jealousy, they abandon all human control and moral standard in order to destroy the faith and joy of others. They recycle the same old stuff over and over again. Just check the page info on the links they provide and you will see WEB-pages frozen many years ago, without exception. Still, these people copy and paste relentlessly in the belief that we never notice. But we see and recognize their desperation.
Half-hearted Catholics also hate Church officials who call on them to grow in faith. Who, me? -- they ask and get seriously offended because of their complacency. Then they jump on the Archbishop, for example, employing all wickedness of the deceptions of secret anti-church societies we have seen in Catholic history. Illegal documents, lies and pretended comments, including role playing with an army of anonymous trolls, we see all these things at JungleWatch as promoted forms of warfare approved and encouraged by the owner. Can anyone go still lower than this?!
Businessist Catholics fake their zeal in the church where everyone can see them, but in fact they look for the opportunity of profit making all the time. Nobody walking in the Neocatechumenal Way has ever said anything bad about Fr Paul on these blogs. Still, there is the intention to use the misery of his situation for personal gain and business profit. This is morally deplorable. If I would be Fr Paul I surely would not look for advocacy and support from half-hearted Catholics who lost their moral sense altogether.
Pope Francis is right to say that half-hearted Catholics don't know and don't care about what is good for the Church and what is good for people of faith.
Dear Zoltan,
DeleteThis is very nicely written. I agree with you on many things. I interpreted the Uniformists as those who hate "change", which is why they oppose Vatican II and the fruits from Vatican II. These are also the same people who focus on where the candles are located, on whether the flowers were put in the proper place, etc. In other words, they focus on trivial things and lost focus of Christ. This is why their other foot is outside of the Church.
The Alternativists are Catholics who oppose some of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Unlike the Uniformists, these Catholics are not afraid of change and would actually prefer to see a change in the Church. These are the Catholics who advocate for same-sex marriage, homosexuality, women's ordination, pre-marital sex, and other teachings opposed by the Church.
As for the third one, that one puzzled me. I had to think what the Pope is saying about them. I imagined that you are correct. They use the Church for some personal gain. I imagined them to be the ones on the front proudly showing support for the Church; yet, expect something in return from the Church whether it be money, fame, privilege or some personal gain.
Pope Francis was correct is saying that these half-hearted Catholics are really not Catholica because they only have one foot in the door while the other foot is outside the Church. I would not be surprise to find that there are some Catholics who have only one big toe inside the door while the rest of the feet is outside the Church.
Yes Diana, I like the way you wrote this excellent summary! Pray for those who are afraid to come in fully for whatever reason.
DeleteBusinessist Catholic- Kiko Arguello. tons of $$$ spent to buy his icons, his chalice, his songbooks, his wine, his see-thru chairs, commissions on his paintings. etc etc etc.
DeleteKiko nearly got permission to build a crypt in Spain to sell lots to his brothers.
Businessist Catholic- Gennarini, his responsible in NJ, the architect with the sole contract to design all the NCW churches.
Dear Anonymous at 12:51 a.m.,
DeleteYou are actually describing Kiko Arguello as though he is the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church also spends tons of money on icons (including statues), gold chalices, songbooks (Roman Missals), the wine, etc.; therefore, that cannot be the Businessist Catholic. The Catholic Church also has cemeteries, and they build seminaries and open new Churches in other places.
The Businessist Catholic is exactly as Zoltan described him. He is the one who proudly supports and defends the Church and he makes sure that everyone can see him. In fact he looks for the opportunity of making a profit for himself all the time such as writing a one-sided book for Father Paul against the Archbishop.
is it true or not true that you have to pay Kiko and his organization for his materials? The difference is in that the Catholic Church you could find the documentation as to how much is accounted. not so with Kiko?
DeleteKiko also proudly defends the church and makes sure the cameras can see him doing so. He makes a profit with the new book, the CD, the prayer cards, the symphony tours... not a humble man delivering the Word like St Padre Pio or Mother Theresa.
Ah! Kiko is another church. The followers of the way spend tons of money on icons, gold chalices, song books, wine, all to design his church in his own image with the signature "kiko".
DeleteDiane is right. Should we call it Catholic Inc?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 8:33 a.m.,
DeleteThere is documentation. When we contribute to the parish, the parish records what comes from the Way. As for Kiko's symphony tours, etc....., they all came from donations......just like the Catholic Church.
Dear Anonymous at 9:03 a.m.,
DeleteWhere in my comments did I ever say that we are another Church. I said that you describe Kiko Arguello as though he is the Catholic Church; therefore, you are incorrect in calling him a Businessist Catholic. You describe him as though he is the Catholic Church simply because he IS part of the Catholic Church, and not half-hearted at all.
Dear Anonymous at 10:01 am.,
DeleteIt was actually Pope Francis who said that the half-hearted Catholics are really NOT Catholics at all because they have only one foot in the door while the other foot is outside the Catholic Church. It is only right that we agree with the Pope in what he says. He is, after all, the Vicar of Christ.
At 9:03AM the Vatican spend money of Gold and historical painting are you to claim of wrong doing? Zoltan is right; jealousy plague your heart. Evidence of the Quaker Rohrbot. Typical
DeleteDear Anonymous at 11:27 a.m.,
DeleteTim Rohr and his followers are not Quakers. They are still our Catholic brothers (although the Pope calls them Half-hearted Catholics). They are still the "other sheep" whom Christ wants to bring together as one flock. Do not stoop to Tim Rohr's level of depraved name-calling.
Diane -yeah baptize Catholic, act like Lutheran and walk like a Calvinist equate to Quaker Rohr. Founder of stealing documents, lurking stealing Face Book identity and posting in his blog. A thief by trade. So therefore the Quaker Rohr.
DeleteMore invention. The Pope did not call "Tim Rohr and his followers" "Half-hearted Catholics". That is your judgement Diana.
DeleteYou might want to pay more attention to the second category in the pope's discourse - ie "those with alternative teachings and doctrines, "has a partial belonging to the church. These, too, have one foot outside the church," he said. "They rent the church," not recognizing that its teaching is based on the preaching of Jesus and the apostolic tradition."
This would be a fair description of "Kiko and his followers"
"These are also the same people who focus on where the candles are located, on whether the flowers were put in the proper place, etc. In other words, they focus on trivial things and lost focus of Christ. This is why their other foot is outside of the Church. "
DeleteDiana,
i've been to many, many, celebrations and there are people who will focus on how the flowers are arranged, if the candles are too low, if the icon is set too far, if the bread is too soft, or if the bread is "drawn ugly" and set aside, that the guitar strings have to be nylon, if the podium is too close to the altar, the chairs too far apart, etc
...or am i wrong and that NONE of these people that Pope Francis has written about exist in your community?
Dear Anonymous at 12:16 p.m.,
DeleteWhy not just call them "half-hearted Catholics" like the Pope does or the "other sheep" like Jesus did?
Dear Peter Palomo,
DeleteThis is actually what I wrote about the Universalists:
I interpreted the Uniformists as those who hate "change", which is why they oppose Vatican II and the fruits from Vatican II. These are also the same people who focus on where the candles are located, on whether the flowers were put in the proper place, etc. In other words, they focus on trivial things and lost focus of Christ. This is why their other foot is outside of the Church.
So, to answer your question depends on whether they are against Vatican II and its fruits and their unwillingness for change.
Dear Anonymous at 1:19 p.m.,
DeleteLiturgies do not fall under the teachings and doctrines of the Church. Why? Because over time, liturgies have changed, but it is the TEACHINGS AND DOCTRINES of the Church that has NEVER changed. Teachings and doctrines such as the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, no divorce, no adultery, and OBEDIENCE to the Pope and bishops has never changed. That described Tim Rohr and his followers. In fact, all three is a fair description of Tim Rohr and his followers. .
Diana June 25, 2014 at 8:03 AM, I guess Tim Rohr should have more common sense than this. Provoking a defamation lawsuit with the Chancery by unsubstantiated accusations in his book could be very expensive, especially if the case is lost. Even if he raises money through European anti-Neocatechumenal channels, which I doubt would be very successful, he and his family may end up in financial troubles. Something to ponder on before crossing the Rubicon.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:15 pm,
DeleteThe NCW believes in the sacrifice of the Mass. It is only those who hate the Way who says differently.
Zoltan nice write up.
ReplyDeleteSincerely
a brother in Christ.
peace
Zoltan: Please do not call us trolls. If you had any idea who we are you would be embarassed. Of this I am quite certain. Please do not judge we have lost our moral sense. This is an area you cannot judge. Also, how do you know we fake zeal? You don't. There is a lot of copy and paste on this site too. Frozen in time? The Neo is a new movement. There is not a lot of history. The experience of the division the Way can cause is not as intense in a large Diocese. In some large Dioceses people do not even know about Kiko. In a small population the experience cannot be missed. In an Archdiocese where the Local Ordinary WALKS and gives all his attention to the brothers in community, it is a painful experience. Let's put it this way....if a Father leaves his family, marries another woman and is devoted to his new family. It hurts. I disagree with @6:11 Zoltan, not a nice write up.
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:30PM your in error the WAY is not new. Is about nearly 50 years old. Unlike the Quaker Rohr and is 11mos old and that is New
DeleteDon't think you should be insulting Quakers. Diana posted a comment about insulting other's beliefs but here you are labeling "Quaker" synonymous with evil and bad.
DeleteThat is sen baba so para pot fabot.
@10:00 am in the centuries and indeed thousands of years of history of our Church 50 years is NEW.
DeleteDear Anonymous June 24th 7:30 pm, I would like to ask something from you. From time to time we see on Jungle blog these anonymously made bad-English comments. Then another anonymous would say "it is from the seminary" and someone would start the name calling. Janet B can be identified as usually involved in these strange games, often calling out Deacon Harold and addressing her litany to him. Do you thing it is right?
DeleteI asked Deacon Harold and he is not the one who is making these comments. In the seminary it is considered a worldly distraction even to know about Jungle blog. These seminarians have a lot of studying, praying, devotion and other businesses to attend to, they simply don't do blogs. So what is the reason Janet B and co. are making up these belligerent conversations?
Another dirty game they play is about Fr Adrian. Jungle blog could control these pretensions if there would be intention for that. But the intention is quite the opposite: these practices always get free ride at Jungle blog! I don't see any bit of moral restraint here. What kind of morality is this by your judgment, dear Anonymous 7:30?
"You are not a god who delights in evil;
no wicked person finds refuge with you;
6the arrogant cannot stand before your eyes.
You hate all who do evil;
7you destroy those who speak falsely.
A bloody and fraudulent man
the LORD abhors.
10For there is no sincerity in their mouth;
their heart is corrupt.
Their throat is an open grave;
on their tongue are subtle lies."
(Psalms 5)
Bernie
Bernie-Janet is one of the three headed dragon. She is part of the KOLG show in the mid 90's that flop. Notice her comments is long winded and unable to get her message out. The tone of her post is similar with Marylou, Maria and Tim. The tactic is to provoke. There is medicine to that. Silence!
Deleteyou are labeling "Quaker" synonymous with evil and bad.
ReplyDeleteWoah there!!!, "evil and bad"?
JW is doing a public service right now advertising channels for those who were victims of abuse in this Archdiocese. what have you done may i ask?-
Dear Anonymous at 12:14 p.m,
DeleteI do not agree with the label of "Quaker" since the Quakers are a religious group also known as the "Society of friends." As for the jungle doing a good public service.....have you read the comments recently? Considering the comments, the jungle might as well change their post and tell victims of abuse to simply report to the civil authorities. The jungle still does what it always do......put down the Archbishop.
Report to civil authorities? That's what should happen. Don't need JW to teach us that one. Diana, that was irresponsible to the limit of irresponsibility. These CRIMES have nothing to do with putting down Archbishop.
DeleteDiana thank you for pointing out.the Catholic Church teaches to be obedient with the Pope and Bishop. Exactly "Obedience". Reminds me of Star Wars Jedi and the Dark Side. I LIKE QUAKER ROHR, than Half Hearted Catholic. If against the bishop that is considered Protestant?
Delete12:14 all I'm saying is that a religious affiliation should not be used to describe someone who is loathed, especially if the person in not from that denomination. For example saying "oh that Baptist Betty, that's just like her" even if Betty is Muslim!
DeletePeople if you disagree with Tim or any other person, leave the religious denomination out of their name.
Dear Anonymous at 3:47 p.m.,
DeleteApparently, you did not read any of the comments in the jungle. If you did, you would have found comments there putting down the Archbishop.
Dear Anonymous at 3:53 p.m.,
DeleteMany Protestants are good people. Also, many of us do not even call them "Protestants" anymore. We often use the name "Christians" to refer to those who are non-Catholics (although we are Christians ourselves).
Nevertheless, the Protestants of the 16th century were excommunicated, but their descendants were not excommunicated. The Catholic Church bonds herself with these Christians. Since Vatican II, we were told to have an open dialogue with the Christians to foster understanding and hopefully bring them home.
If you are a brother walking in the Way, do not stoop to the level of Tim Rohr and his followers.
But what if you are a sister in the Way? Why does Neo only make use of masculine Brother? I always notice this. Sticks out like a sore thumb. Must be something I am missing.
DeleteDear Anonymous at 6:16 pm,
DeleteIt is understood that "brothers" also includes the sisters. When I say "to the brothers in the Way", I am also addressing the sisters who walk in the Way. The Apostles do the same thing. For example, St. Paul wrote to the Church in Galatia, and he also used "brothers" even when there are sisters in the Church of Galatia:
Galatia 1:11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
The word "brethren" in Greek is adelphos, which means "brother", "fellow man" "brother in Christ", or fellow believer. When translated into English, the word "brethren" becomes "brothers." Nevertheless, the word "brethren" is understood to mean both men and women when addressing the Church as St. Paul did when he wrote to the Church in Galatia. In the same way, the word "man" or "mankind" is also understood to mean that women are included.
This understanding stood us well for a long time; it is true. Now, the Pope never uses the Royal WE anymore. The Archbishop always addresses the congregation Sisters and Brothers. Don't you think this should evolve-also?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 10:40 p.m.,
DeleteI think it depends on the person. The Pope warns us not to be universalists in that we demand everyone to conform to his/her way. In the Way, there are some who address everyone as "brothers and sisters" as the Archbishop does. And then there are others like me who often use "brothers".
Diana, you mean uniformist, not universalist, right?
DeleteDear Anonymous at 12:34 a.m.,
DeleteYes. Thank you for the correction.