tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post507774286574498373..comments2024-03-20T11:41:40.379+10:00Comments on Neocatechumenal Way - An Insider's View: The Age Of The Neocats (Part II)Dianahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-61450825556262134522021-12-24T06:45:39.829+10:002021-12-24T06:45:39.829+10:00To whom it may concern,
My name is Fr. Stephen Ara...To whom it may concern,<br />My name is Fr. Stephen Arabadjis. I am a member of the Society of St. Pius X. But I am in my 7th year of Sabbatical.Therefore I was hoping your group could do a 54 day rosary novena for my intentions. But any prayers and sacrifices would be greatly appreciated. I know Our Lady will reward you generously for this.<br />In Our Lady, <br />Fr. Arabadjis<br />P.S. Thanking you in advance, since I don't always get all my communications.Stephen Arabadjishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07959777048017543324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-52148483613179008422015-05-01T00:28:05.251+10:002015-05-01T00:28:05.251+10:00@ keith xuereb on April 25, 2015 at 8:37 PM
Your s...@ keith xuereb on April 25, 2015 at 8:37 PM<br />Your saying that the Holy See's approval can be mistaken and only the Bible can't be mistaken is the fallacy of the Reformation. It is Holy Mother Church who hands the Bible over to us (tra-ditio). The reason why we have the Bible is because the Church's tradition has given it to us. Otherwise how would you know what writings are Sacred Scripture and what writings aren't? In fact, our Protestant brethren can't agree with us even in this point. Jesus has promised to be with us to the end of the world and sent the Holy Spirit to his apostles and they, in turn, laid their hands on their successors. Our Church is apostolic. That is why you can't be serious in professing Catholic faith and just dismiss something that has been enjoying the verbal and written encouragement and approval of six popes and various dicasteries of the Holy See, and say they might be mistaken, because only the Bible can't be mistaken. That would be inconsistent and self-contradictory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-208955144686184522015-04-28T07:32:37.796+10:002015-04-28T07:32:37.796+10:00Keith: The way is a set of spiritual gifts. The di...Keith: The way is a set of spiritual gifts. The directories, the statutes are these gifts. These have been approved by the church which means that in matter of faith and praxis the way is kosher/ok/catholic whatever you want to call it. there can not be 2 faiths! which means that these gifts of the NCW are the church. and with this if you are well intentioned you will not assume I am saying no one else is church. I am saying n the contrary that all agencies charisms etc that teach and live the faith of the church, all these are the church. You can say "I experienced this…." and criticize the people who walk in the way, but when you say the NCW is not a "way to live cristian catholic life" then you are saying that the organization that has approved statutes and directories is not "a way to live christian catholic life" in other words you are saying that the church is neither chrisitan nor catholic. You can say that PEOPLE are not christian nor catholic but you cannot say that about the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, you can! I love free speech, but then you are putting yourself outside of communion with rome and effectively declaring yourself protestant. Choose your sect. <br />in my reading your paragraph 2 and 3 are based in #1. the answer answers them too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-51761069878540503742015-04-28T06:55:14.169+10:002015-04-28T06:55:14.169+10:00Dear Keith,
A person who only quotes from anti-N...Dear Keith, <br /><br />A person who only quotes from anti-Neo websites is not interested in open dialogue. If a person is truly confused and wants clarification from the NCW, they would ask questions and listen attentively rather than quote from the anti-Neo websites and then demean the NCW with insults.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-14526393613585584872015-04-28T06:22:16.315+10:002015-04-28T06:22:16.315+10:00Anonymous, you may as well be right however my las...Anonymous, you may as well be right however my last comment contained 3 paragraphs, you only showed disagreement with the first part, the two other parts are far more important for people in the way to understand, the first paragraph was a sort of analogy, maybe a bad analogy if you understand it like you did, but an analogy nonetheless :) <br />A note to Diana, the last post on the page about not publishing anything against the way to me seems to be further proof that the people in the ncw are not open for discussions. however I have given up trying to show people what I firmly believe is not the true way one should live his christian catholic life, so now it is up to you people to reflect in your heart alone whether what you do you do for yourself, for the good of the ncw, for others or for God, the last two being the only 'correct' answers, and hopefully the ones many of you choose. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03505502370069321061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-69469428692085398162015-04-27T21:48:25.788+10:002015-04-27T21:48:25.788+10:00Delta force: you make a hodgepodge of ideas and hi...Delta force: you make a hodgepodge of ideas and historical reference based on inaccurate information and false premises that are very difficult to untwine in this context. But here are a few ends I'll pull. <br />1. False premise: No books needed. Absolutely false. While there are examples of saints with scientia infusa, the great majority of Christians have been given brains that need developing in order to muddle through life at the best of our abilities. This means learning from books to develop reason and understand the tradition of the church, the fathers and scripture. And history. Without this you should not argue liturgy dogmatics or law. You can say "my experience is that ncw does ..." But you cannot say "ncw believes or is ..."<br />2. Inaccurate info: st. Ignatius and Trent. The Jesuits method and spirituality are actually a model for ncw. trent was the work of the Holy Spirit for the church situation of the time. Which you did mention. However to say "they went too far" is an incomprehensible statement that sounds like you are criticizing their work and the validity of the action of the Holy Spirit through them. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-10980709645208381952015-04-27T16:32:06.921+10:002015-04-27T16:32:06.921+10:00Dear Anonymous 7:25, yeah that is exactly what I a...Dear Anonymous 7:25, yeah that is exactly what I am talking about. I do not know who you are, you still tell me mean things... I apologize if anything I said hurt you, it was unintentional. I did not say the council at Trent is invalid or not Catholic or anything to that extent. Trent did a lot of good for the church. However, Trent also limited further works of the Spirit of Him who came to be incarnate among us. <br /><br />Because of the Protestant impact, the church was in great distress. St Ignatius came to help and I emphasize he did a lot of good in clarity and framework. But he outdid the job a little bit at Trent. This is a well known fact after Vatican 2. The natural diversity that had been so vital before Trent was boxed into a rigid frame of doctrines and regulations. Everything became uniform. The church needed Vatican 2 in order to free from the bondage of dogmatic uniformity that plagued the work of the Spirit for 350 years. <br /><br />Even today the Way struggles to get accepted because we don’t follow senseless uniformity. We consume the Host together at our Eucharist and have the altar as table decorated by flowers. But this is not a fault, on the contrary, it is a beauty that shines through! The stone that has been rejected becomes the corner stone. We need to reject being locked into boxes and rigid dogmatism. Books are worthless if we do not look for the Spirit. The Lord is leading us to break free from bondage. We abandoned even the church buildings because we have our Eucharist in communities. What is the parish if not a community of communities? All those paintings and statues in the church buildings are only distractions from the work of the Spirit. <br /><br />No, thank you, my faith does not need fixing. I know my faith and respectfully just stick to it. I don't need bookworms from the jungle to impose on me their dry uniform Catholicism. Please, tell me what is wrong with that and I will humbly listen to you. I cannot promise though that I will turn away my Lord. The reason we don't need catechists at the celebration of Word because the Spirit is coming straight from the Word. The Word speaks for itself while teaches faith. <br /><br />We do not need books to impose on us, we only need books to teach us. Teaching is not the same as imposing. Jesus taught the disciples but never imposed on them. The same goes with the catechists. A catechist who imposes on the catechumenate destroys their faith even before it was born free. I personally could join any Christian group around. I chose my community because I know my faith. I don't need to be fixed my friend. I tell you the truth, if the game becomes dirty, imposes books on me and turns me away from the Lord, I won't be there anymore for sure! I'll run away gracefully to another place where freedom prevails. "You are my friend" says the Lord. That is well enough for me.delta forcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-71244757242501445252015-04-27T10:21:33.794+10:002015-04-27T10:21:33.794+10:00Dear Anonymous at 7:25 am,
The brothers in the W...Dear Anonymous at 7:25 am, <br /><br />The brothers in the Way are not perfect and some may not know their Catholic faith as you realize. This is why we are walking in the Way. I have met brothers in the Way who have made errors. This is also true for Catholics not walking in the Way. After all, just look at how many Catholics are convinced that same-sex marriage is okay. As Catholics, we correct the brothers and help them come to a better knowledge and understanding of their Catholic faith. <br /><br />I published Delta Forces' comments in order to correct him regarding the Council of Trent, which is a valid and legitimate council that met to reinforce and reaffirm the teachings of the Catholic Church in light of the Protestant Reformation. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-11211175998975687642015-04-27T07:25:36.524+10:002015-04-27T07:25:36.524+10:00The problem is that statements that are as ignoran...The problem is that statements that are as ignorant, albeit enthusiastic, but still ignorant and extremely inaccurate like Delta Forces' feed misconceptions about the way! He's like an eager puppy barking cool things he's heard with no foundation and that he misinterprets! I understand pre-catechumen enthusiasm but this is public. Now jungle supporters are perhaps worse because they DO have evil intentions, but still better to limit these well intentioned but asinine comments like "abhorrence of trent" (?!?!?!!? a council that has set church policy for 500 years???? how dare you????). I've been a catechist for 20 years: do not speak for me and nowhere NOWHERE in any catechesis does anybody say anything like that. his mis-definition of dogma is shocking. Please limit his comments. <br /><br />on the other hand he is the poster child of how misinformed catholics are and precisely the reason why people need a catechumen ate to discover their faith. obviously this guy has a ways to go. Do not think that his ignorance reflects what the way teaches: it reflects what the way corrects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-48820215573698260502015-04-27T06:33:39.996+10:002015-04-27T06:33:39.996+10:00Dear Anonymous at 6:24 am,
So, why do you bother...Dear Anonymous at 6:24 am, <br /><br />So, why do you bother to come to this blog if you already made up your mind in what you want to believe??? On March 6th, Pope Francis gave the NCW its strongest support, and you still do not believe. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-38752718207393936682015-04-27T06:24:13.360+10:002015-04-27T06:24:13.360+10:00I can show you 4 Popes letters; video's...etc....I can show you 4 Popes letters; video's...etc....affirming the NCW standing since inception.<br /><br />In a letter?????? what letter????? <br /><br />You bet I don't believe it. Your comment is nothingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-69806885799195082152015-04-27T06:01:57.591+10:002015-04-27T06:01:57.591+10:00Dear Anonymous at 9:16 pm,
When someone says som...Dear Anonymous at 9:16 pm, <br /><br />When someone says something positive about the Way, why do you construe that as arrogance and demeaning to those who attend the parish Mass? Saying: ""We consume the host together because this is the beauty of the whole Eucharist. We belong to Christ together as a community. " is in no way putting down those who attend the parish Mass. <br /><br />If someone had said that they experience great joy in the parish Mass as they receive the Body of Christ, and that he/she belongs to Christ, I do not interpret that to mean that the parish Mass is far better than the NCW Eucharist or even the Traditional Latin Mass. You are interpreting arrogance where arrogance is not meant. There is nothing wrong with having pride in the school you attend, the place you work in, the Church you go to, or the activities you participate in. One does not demean others when he/she says positive things about their experience. What is demeaning is when one resorts to calling the other "names." Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-72088546586419254902015-04-26T23:22:17.953+10:002015-04-26T23:22:17.953+10:00Hi Timmy, how is the air like over here at our blo...Hi Timmy, how is the air like over here at our blog? Do you like to breath it in our fresh air every day? Woww!! You just cannot stay away holed up at your own blog, can you?! Don't worry, I completely understand you, though. Your blog is soooooooo boring. You really need to come over here to some excitement. Lol and lol again!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-4993672144145222752015-04-26T22:08:07.294+10:002015-04-26T22:08:07.294+10:00Dear Delta Force,
The Council of Trent is a vali...Dear Delta Force, <br /><br />The Council of Trent is a valid council and did not bring any new teachings of the Catholic faith. Rather, it reinforced the faith at a time when the Protestants rebelled against the Church. The teachings, dogmas, and doctrines of the Catholic Church has remained the same for over 2000 years regardless of the few bad popes we had in the Church's history. <br /><br />The books of the Bible have already been set and established toward the end of the fourth century. We have not changed the books since the fourth century. Vatican II was set up for a different reason. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-39617307467514348152015-04-26T21:38:49.265+10:002015-04-26T21:38:49.265+10:00No Diana, I don't think so. There is a reason ...No Diana, I don't think so. There is a reason of abhorrence from Trent. At that time the Catholic Church had to cuddle up to protect itself from the Protestant onslaught. So the clergy at the council led by St Ignatius of Loyola came up with a very rigid dogmatic framework. Some of this was necessary, some was not. St Ignatius outdid the job a little. This made twist in the history of the church for about 350 years up until Vatican 2. It is time now to straight out the path of the Lord and this twist called Trent in church history.<br /><br />As about the books in the Apocrypha, again, the job was outdone a little. The Book of Tobit, for example, depicts a strange, erroneous geography that has never existed in real historic time. Some big cities of the time are misplaced. What is more, the Book of Tobit does not add any new theological information to the Old Testament, no wonder it is not part of Jewish canon either. It is about this one single book only, as an example. delta forcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-65241277305568425102015-04-26T21:16:33.118+10:002015-04-26T21:16:33.118+10:00"We consume the host together because this is..."We consume the host together because this is the beauty of the whole Eucharist. We belong to Christ together as a community. "<br /><br />You see, the problem with this sort of sentiment - which is actually exactly what the NCW teaches - is that it implies that the Church, in its lawful guidance and direction of the liturgy, is wrong - or at least "less right" than Kiko. <br /><br />Furthermore your characterization of Trent, again quite consistent with Kiko's teaching is problematic in that it suggests that our predecessors in the faith did not have that have the freedom that comes with the Holy Spirit, but were in fact "excluded" from that Spirit. This is a denial of the Church that Jesus Christ established. It is a denial of the Holy Spirit that inhabits and inspires that Church. and apart from being incredibly arrogant and simplistic, it is an insult to the saints of that "dogmatic past", as you put it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-19135042340005224722015-04-26T19:30:01.884+10:002015-04-26T19:30:01.884+10:00Dear Delta Force,
The Council of Trent is a vali...Dear Delta Force, <br /><br />The Council of Trent is a valid council, and it reinforced the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Protestants came with their own teachings and even took out 7 books from the Old Testament. They also taught that the Eucharist was only a symbol. <br /><br />The Council of Trent, on the other hand, reinforced the Catholic teachings regarding the Eucharist as the true body and blood of Christ, and that the 7 books taken out by the Protestants are indeed inspired books. These are still teachings that we hold true today.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-57018801990022733242015-04-26T17:46:46.235+10:002015-04-26T17:46:46.235+10:00RE: Anonymous Apr 24, 2015@7:12
In a letter to t...RE: Anonymous Apr 24, 2015@7:12<br /><br /><br />In a letter to the chief of Radio Maria[68] in 1994, Zoffoli reported that, already in the late sixties, Saint Pio of Pietrelcina defined Kiko Argüello and the Neocatechumenals as “the new false prophets“.<br /><br />And, even if you don't believe it:<br /> If it wasn't for those seeking the truth and correcting the people who were indoctrinating others with teachings that were not Catholic (THIS INCLUDES THE POPES), the NCW would still be catechizing errors, and still be celebrating their Masses without the prayers of the Creed, Lamb of God, etc. <br /><br />The NCW Mass still needs to be corrected as per the NCW's approved Statutes of 2008. Don't settle for the outdated and unapproved Statutes of 2002.<br /><br />You've got a good thing; it can become better! Then, more will join, and more will promote the Way.<br /><br /><br /><br />You've discovered some truth. Keep searching for the whole truth. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-87200471707344247772015-04-26T17:23:39.915+10:002015-04-26T17:23:39.915+10:00No, I am not confused, dear anonymous at 9:02. Bei...No, I am not confused, dear anonymous at 9:02. Being dogmatic means you don't convince anyone but try to impose on! This is what the jungle does. They cannot argue or say what is true, but trying to impose their dogmatic view on everyone. They even want to dry up donation from parishes. What is this if not imposition, blackmail and arrogance?<br /><br />There is no such thing as "not explainable through reason". You can explain Eucharist in the Way through reason. We consume the host together because this is the beauty of the whole Eucharist. We belong to Christ together as a community. <br /><br />The Council of Trent wanted to stop erosion caused by the Protestants and made a big box of rules to frame Catholic life around. I worked for a couple of hundred years. But now is the time to break free. We outgrew the box of Trent, the framework of imposition. We see now how the Spirit of Him who came to be incarnate and free us is excluded from that box of dogmatic imposition. <br /><br />You say "Whether people approve the directories or not is irrelevant. Because the pope and congregation of faith has." No, it is not irrelevant if you want to convince people of goodwill or just impose on them. We do not impose on anyone in our communities. We do not live "by the book" as bookworms in the jungle do. Dogmatic thinking goes beyond actual dogmas, it is a lifestyle of servitude and bondage. The communities offer an experience of the Spirit rather than a set of rules or dogmas. When one gives in to the community, one gives in to the Spirit and not to the books. Christ is who lives in the church, not dry letters of outdated books of a dogmatic past. delta forcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-58273146321154936782015-04-26T09:02:05.689+10:002015-04-26T09:02:05.689+10:00Delta force you are confused. Dogma is not law, do...Delta force you are confused. Dogma is not law, dogma is belief. Thou shalt not steal is law. The trinity is dogma. Sabbath prohibition is law, the immaculate conception is dogma. Dogmas are articles of faith that are not explainable through reason but that we believe without the aide of reason because they are divinely revealed to us. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-91187361575002265772015-04-26T05:26:59.658+10:002015-04-26T05:26:59.658+10:00I cannot wholeheartedly agree with you, dear Anony...I cannot wholeheartedly agree with you, dear Anonymous 11:39. Your concept of dogma is a little dry. You should remember that dogmatic thinking kills the Spirit as St Paul taught us. The greatest dogma ever of any kind of faith ever is the prohibition of activity on Sabbath day. This dogma made awful damages to the lives of people, it made them to suffer. We needed Jesus to override this horrible thing. Jesus gives us the Spirit of truth that makes you free in contrast to the spirit of servitude that enslaves you. The two things cannot exist together just as freedom in Jesus and enslavement to Sabbath day cannot exist together. <br /><br />This is the very same truth even now as you read. As it was so in the days of St Paul, it is also the same today. In our communities we experience the Spirit of Him who made Himself incarnate among us. This Spirit cannot exist in bondage. You have to break free from bondage in order to come to the Lord. This is the great thing about our communities. <br /><br />I have to admit, the only reason I joined my community because I see the freedom of faith here. I would not stay any minute longer if this would not be true. You know if the game is dirty, it is better to stay out! I tell this also to Keith. He is still suspicious about the Way. But he cannot justify his suspicion because we live in the freedom of Christ and not in the bondage that bookworm Catholics at the jungle try to impose on everybody. They are like crazy bugs and the true democracy of God is like insect repellent for them. Wow, you see they are shrieking in horror and run away because they just cannot stand freedom. How sad. delta forcenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-12235579309296855232015-04-25T23:39:43.746+10:002015-04-25T23:39:43.746+10:00Wow Keith. Your comparison of the the directories ...Wow Keith. Your comparison of the the directories to holy war is spectacularly ignorant or fascetious. Holy war is not dogma and is not a required catholic belief. It is actually equatable to death penalty. Some Catholics believe in it others do not. Had Europe gotten their act together during the crusades we would not have the problems we see now. And you from Malta should know this better than anyone. I digress. <br /><br />The directories instead deal with the heart of catholic dogma and faith. Because of this the pope JP2 farmed the approval of the tomes to congregation of faith (Ratzinger at the time). Faith studied the tomes and approved them which means that they are catholic. Now since the Catholic Church is NOT a democracy but very much a hierarchical structure, the assurance of dogmatic kosherness (☺️) comes from above not below. Wether people approve the directories or not is irrelevant. Because the pope and congregation of faith has. Pope Francis doesn't like the death penalty, many Catholics do. Is that a dogmatic conflict? No. The Church says abortion is a sin no matter the circumstance. Many Catholics disagree. Is that a dogmatic conflict? YES! If you want to compare popular acceptance of the ncw, abortion works better. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-88464341625613668142015-04-25T22:56:55.283+10:002015-04-25T22:56:55.283+10:00Dear Keith,
The Crusades began with the invasion...Dear Keith, <br /><br />The Crusades began with the invasion of the Muslim Turks into the Holy Land (Jerusalem). The Muslims oppressed both the Jews and Christians. The Christians went to war to remove the Muslims from the Holy Land and protect the Christians. The problem, however, was there were Christians who were greedy and took advantage of the war to pursue their greed. If the Christians had done nothing, all of Europe would have become Muslims today. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-16139103747418008772015-04-25T20:37:40.268+10:002015-04-25T20:37:40.268+10:00The Vatican started crusades in the past. Most Cat...The Vatican started crusades in the past. Most Catholics just accepted that it was a Holy war as the popes used to say and went to war. Today we know the crusades was a mistake. <br />The fact that the Vatican approves something doesn't mean it's perfect, that is a childish approach. The only perfect book is the bible, and we do not even know all of it. <br />The pope approves thousands of groups and yet none are perfect so please stop saying the pope has approved the ncw as some sort of our group is perfect, because it is not, and until you realise that you will not be a true catholic group who are open to all people including well formed catholics from other walks of life. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03505502370069321061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-13960189848884839332015-04-25T11:24:36.793+10:002015-04-25T11:24:36.793+10:00"Do you honestly think the Catholic Church wo..."Do you honestly think the Catholic Church would put a stamp of approval on the Koran, the Book of Mormons, or anything heretical even for publication??? "<br /><br />No I don't. <br /><br />I do honestly believe that when the Catholic Church approves something for publication, it expects that it is made available for the faithful. What sort of doctrinal guarantee can a secret caetchesis provide? There are no excuses. This Catechetical Directory ought to be made available, as is every other document of the Church pertaining to the teachings of the faithful. If the NCW claims it is the "light" why does it hide this in the darkness?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com