tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post3009519717947701171..comments2024-03-20T11:41:40.379+10:00Comments on Neocatechumenal Way - An Insider's View: Comments Being Purposely Misconstrued Dianahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-41507435864767936532014-03-19T14:20:56.528+10:002014-03-19T14:20:56.528+10:00Dear Zoltan,
Tim Rohr is not interested in learn...Dear Zoltan, <br /><br />Tim Rohr is not interested in learning the truth about the Neocatechumenal Way, which is the reason I refuse to meet with him in person. His entire blogsite shows that he is not willing to listen nor give an honest discussion. Tim Rohr believes that the GIRM is NOT a guideline at all as he stated in his posts. Yet, Chapter I, Section 21 reveals that it is a Guideline and an Instruction. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-43535272470002108642014-03-19T13:25:26.259+10:002014-03-19T13:25:26.259+10:00Dear Patrick,
READ my post in the OP. The title...Dear Patrick,<br /> <br />READ my post in the OP. The title is "Comments Being Purposely Misconstrued." Please stick to the topic of discussion and do not derail the thread. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-90000038576144764792014-03-19T12:56:08.432+10:002014-03-19T12:56:08.432+10:00I found that people over there at the Jungle Watch...I found that people over there at the Jungle Watch are not interested at all in learning about the Way. I am not going to post for them at least until the Vigil night. May the Resurrection of our Lord bring also them a renewal of their hearts and minds so that they might become open to the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />Read the summary about the discussion here: http://neocatheart.blogspot.comZoltanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10881244654285854387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-67281188532447186722014-03-19T11:33:29.291+10:002014-03-19T11:33:29.291+10:00The issue at the heart of this discussion is the m...The issue at the heart of this discussion is the method of receiving Blessed Sacrament in the "communities".<br />This matter is dealt with under the GIRM, and under that part of the GIRM which is clearly a "rule" (ie the ordering of the form).Patricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-15250763182522030402014-03-19T01:59:34.960+10:002014-03-19T01:59:34.960+10:00Simple solution for Zoltans comments not to be mis...Simple solution for Zoltans comments not to be misinterpreted or misconstrued....STOP COMMENTING! All the comments do is add fuel to the fire and Zoltan, you either don't explain what you are trying to say clearly enough for ppl to read it as you mean it or your words are twisted....seriously, JUST STOP ALREADY. pray instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-89400011175553321142014-03-18T20:55:00.329+10:002014-03-18T20:55:00.329+10:00Dear Anonymous,
I am unlike Tim, and here is the...Dear Anonymous, <br /><br />I am unlike Tim, and here is the reason why. <br /><br />In Tim's blogsite, he concluded that the GIRM is NOT a guide at all, and he gave no substantial evidence showing that. He only went by his own opinion. In fact, I don't see any scientific method of any kind showing how Tim concluded that the GIRM is not a guide at all. <br /><br />I, on the other hand, pointed to Chapter 1, Section 21 in the GIRM, which states that it is both a guideline and an instruction. When one does not substantiate their opinion with some sort of evidence, then it simply remains a biased opinion and nothing more. My citing Chapter I, Section 21 of the GIRM collaborates what I stated, and therefore becomes a factual statement. <br /><br />If Tim believes that the GIRM is still NOT a guideline, then his next step is to show how Chapter I, Section 21 of the GIRM is wrong. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-3060200764012718482014-03-18T20:49:14.628+10:002014-03-18T20:49:14.628+10:00Dear Patrick,
If you re-read my post, I stated t...Dear Patrick, <br /><br />If you re-read my post, I stated that the GIRM is BOTH a guideline and an Instruction. The topic of discussion is not about whether receiving communion is a guideline or an Instruction. The topic of discussion is whether the GIRM is also a guide or not as Tim Rohr has concluded that is NOT a guide at all. I would greatly appreciate if you would stick to the topic of discussion and not try to derail this thread. Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-62603271312312982082014-03-18T16:31:56.852+10:002014-03-18T16:31:56.852+10:00Please read the relevant section again. Chapter 1 ...Please read the relevant section again. Chapter 1 Section 21:<br /><br />"This Instruction aims both to offer:<br /><br /> general guidelines for properly arranging the Celebration of the Eucharist; and <br />to set forth rules for ordering the various forms of celebration"<br /><br />The "guidelines" relate to the 'proper arrangement' of the Celebration of the Eucharist, whereas the "rules" are for "ordering the form" of the celebration. <br /><br />Obviously, the manner of receiving communion is a part of the 'ordering of the form' not the 'proper arrangement', and is therefore a "rule" (instruction) rather than a "guideline"<br /><br />Please be more careful in the future.Patricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-55966800403795509002014-03-18T16:13:47.673+10:002014-03-18T16:13:47.673+10:00Diana,
We are going around in circles here so I j...Diana, <br />We are going around in circles here so I just realized and I wonder, did it ever occur to you that you are in fact just like Tim? The only difference is the side debate or dialogue. You argue for something that has been founded by Kiko and that Tim argues for something that was founded by Jesus Christ himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-40128711337182922582014-03-18T14:00:22.262+10:002014-03-18T14:00:22.262+10:00Dear Anonymous,
So, why mention section 36? Or w...Dear Anonymous, <br /><br />So, why mention section 36? Or was that a typo? And what makes you think that the Way's celebration is NOT a Special Celebration? Do you have any evidence showing that the Way is a General Celebration......especially when the Statutes of the Way already indicated that certain liturgical rites are adapted to meet its special needs for the catechumen on page 21-22? <br /><br />It was clear in Tim's comments that the GIRM was NOT a guideline at all.He never said that the GIRM was a guide ONLY for special celebrations. He said it is NOT a Guide. So, are you saying that the GIRM is NOT a guideline as Tim Rohr says? <br /><br />And how is our silence ruining the Church? As I pointed out, even when members of the Way told Tim that the GIRM is a guide, did he listen? Did you listen? Do you still think that the GIRM is NOT a guideline at all? And I mean......at all as Tim Rohr says. <br /><br />Part of having a dialogue is "listening" to the other person rather than mocking them. It was already told by one anonymous poster that the GIRM is a guide, and the response was mockery. Did it ever occur to you that the reason they remain silent is because you already made up your mind on what the answers are regardless of what the Archbishop or anyone says? Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-84134242183615127482014-03-18T11:46:04.182+10:002014-03-18T11:46:04.182+10:00Oh dear Diana, yes I did read it. at the end of se...Oh dear Diana, yes I did read it. at the end of section 21, it says for various forms of celebrations [32]. If you click on [32] it will take you to where it describes the various forms of celebrations where it is to be used as guidelines. Therefore, these are Instructions.<br /><br />As for what Monsignor David says, if he told you something wrong you would believe him anyways because he is Monsignor, don't dare question him. Same goes for this Archbishop, they don't care about their people, only those in the NCW. Thats why they won't answer our questions or suspicions further creating an us and them mentality. This is our Church and they are ruining it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-584515325046109472014-03-18T11:23:51.884+10:002014-03-18T11:23:51.884+10:00Dear Anonymous,
I don't think you quite under...Dear Anonymous, <br />I don't think you quite understand my point. I said that Tim is insistent that the GIRM is NOT a guideline as he stated in his comments. There was an anonymous poster who told Tim Rohr that even Monsignor David informed them that the GIRM is a guide, but Tim Rohr did not listen to him/her. Rather, he brushed the poster off and criticized the poster and the Way, insisting that the GIRM is NOT a Guide, despite that the GIRM says otherwise.. Is there any guarantee that Tim Rohr is not going to do the same to the Archbishop? <br /><br />Furthermore, What makes you think that Chapter 1 Section 21 of the GIRM are guidelines only for Special Celebrations when the GIRM never indicated as such. Did you read Chapter 1 in the GIRM? For your information, Section 36 is found in Chapter II, not Chapter I of the GIRM.Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-54059084175966469402014-03-18T10:33:11.498+10:002014-03-18T10:33:11.498+10:00Diana,
okay, Tim will be Tim. But he is still a fa...Diana,<br />okay, Tim will be Tim. But he is still a faithful within the Diocese. Tim has done so much for this Archbishop and our Church that the least the Archbishop can do for him is address his concerns he's presented. These are concerns I have as well. Addressing these concerns will at least answer the same questions that so many of us regular Catholics have as well.<br /><br /><br />GIRM, Chapter 1, Section 21 are guidelines for Special Celebrations listed in Section 36, not General Celebrations such as, NCW Masses.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-58193883191945276442014-03-18T10:11:31.323+10:002014-03-18T10:11:31.323+10:00Please . . . Diana, you certainly are neck deep in...Please . . . Diana, you certainly are neck deep in your denial. This has nothing to do with Tim and you know it. Your focus on Tim is indicative of the desperation of your clinging to your position. <br />If the Archbishop speaks, he has to with the authority of the Church. If he speaks otherwise, he will be open for criticism, and rightly so. You offer nothing but weak excuses for the silence of the Archbishop.<br />I think that if he does speak in favor of manipulating the GIRM, then he will get the attention of the Vatican, and thus may be reproved publicly. <br />As long as he remains silent, he avoids accountability. <br />I hope you possess some courage and post this comment. Concerned Catholic Chamorronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-87878793067473090212014-03-18T09:47:50.261+10:002014-03-18T09:47:50.261+10:00Dear Anonymous,
Do you honestly think that a clar...Dear Anonymous, <br />Do you honestly think that a clarification from the Archbishop is going to help especially in light of how Tim treated a priest who has a Ph.D in Liturgy? Tim Rohr is insistent that the GIRM is NOT a guideline. Yet, the GIRM stated in Chapter 1, Section 21: <br /><br />21. This Instruction aims both to offer general GUIDELINES for properly arranging the Celebration of the Eucharist and to set forth rules for ordering the various forms of celebrations. <br /><br />If Tim Rohr has already made up his mind that everything he says is true, then why does he need the Archbishop for clarification? Regardless of what the Archbishop says, Tim Rohr is still going to insist that his opinions are right and the Archbishop is wrong. <br />Dianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13613247477141929635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-15555147599965759772014-03-18T08:58:47.087+10:002014-03-18T08:58:47.087+10:00This is why Tim is requesting a clarification from...This is why Tim is requesting a clarification from the Archbishop... but since he disregards us, the regular catholics, he will not respond. But this is something that does need to get addressed because of the division between the NCW and the rest of us Catholics. The Archbishop is the problem here, all the Archbishop needs to do is address the concerns presented by Tim Rohr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-60676195968615804042014-03-18T00:14:33.472+10:002014-03-18T00:14:33.472+10:00Of course, the final word should come from the Vat...Of course, the final word should come from the Vatican. If they don't say anything, it means there is nothing to talk about... Period! ;)Zoltanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10881244654285854387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8205973525389434155.post-44910339014995648582014-03-18T00:07:11.607+10:002014-03-18T00:07:11.607+10:00Dear Diana, thanks for giving excellent insight to...Dear Diana, thanks for giving excellent insight to the short comment I made to Chuck over at the Jungle Watch blog. It is true that even the General Instructions (GIRM) need discernment and we may end up with different interpretations. Tim Rohr claims that his own interpretation is the only and exclusive truth. But he only has a handful of anonymous followers, perhaps on his payroll, who spew this interpretation out on his blog day and night. A simple analysis of the writing styles of the comments over there point to one single person, who probably writes all anonymous comments for the Jungle. You also see the same, unique and characteristic obsession in all these comments, which unifies them under the same umbrella of an obsessed mind.<br /><br />Our discernment of the General Instructions prompts our view of a unified community that celebrates the Eucharist together, as One Body. Therefore the distribution of the Sacred Host concludes when all members of the community have received it and then the consumption occurs together in one act of unity for the whole community. I made this point in my blog at<br /><br />http://neocatheart.blogspot.com/2014/03/discernment-of-general-instructions.html<br /><br />But what can we say if Tim Rohr and his ilk are not willing to open their minds to the Holy Spirit?Zoltanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10881244654285854387noreply@blogger.com